throws and ground work in shotokan?

[shotokanbeginner]

I never knew there was throws or any ground work in shotokan, but apparently there is. So this brings me to the question, why does everyone think shotokna is purely a striking art then? Why isn't anything ever said in books and such? Sorry if this is the wrong place to post.

[wheeze]

i am taking shotokan now and there is jiu jutsu involved in it. i was surprised too. i have found the technique far different then brazilian jui jutsu and in some ways better in other ways worse. i have noticed that some of the take down techniques are complicated and require lots of practice. my only problem now is that my instructor goes through so much in one class you can not grasp much of what is taught.

i teach Shorin Ryu karate and i only teach a few techniques at a time. we drill over and over again until everyone is comfortble with what they are doing. with the kids i have found thier retention of what is taught is much higher.

[UseoForce]

Can anyone post some links or something so I can see what Shotokan grappling looks like?

[bushido_man96]

Sounds like a good deal to me. I had never heard about that before; always thought it was a striking art as well. I wish my TKD classes incorporated more groundwork. My grappling skills are very poor.

[shotokanwarrior]

When funakoshi went to japan, Kano ( judo founder ) was impressed and asked funikoshi to stay and teach, It is believed that some judo was also added to funikoshi's karate. This was all done well before it was ever named shotokan, but yes throwing and grappling techniques can be interpeted from the Katas.

[Jiffy]

I always find this amusing when people find this out. It is such an exciting discovery for students to find there is more to Shotokan than they first thought. Well Done!

To qualify myself.... I have been training in Shotokan for 19 years now and I guess I have done a bit of study of it over those years.

Here's a bit of a history lesson that should answer both questions.

Shotokan is litterally translated as "Shoto's Hall"

"Shoto" is the pen name given to a Japanese poet called Gichin Funakoshi. So all the name means is that it was Gichin Funakoshi's place.

Anyway, as most of you know, Gichin Funakoshi is renowned as the creater of Shotokan and is often labelled as the "Father of Modern Karate". What most people don't know is that Funakoshi was close friends with Jigaro Kano, a Jiu Jitsu practitioner and the founder of Judo. Funakoshi wanted Jiu Jitsu lessons and in exchange, gave Kano Karate lessons. Both of them encourperated part of this into their arts.

Both men were interested in promoting the arts in Japan and world wide. They decided together that the way to do this was to promote it through the school system. To do so, they believed they would need to come up with a system that was safer for kids and that worked more on the physical aspects than the devastating techniques. As such Funakoshi moulded his Shotokan in a way that it could be practised safely. The lethal techniques were still taught, but only to higher level students that had been training for some time. This is why many people look at Shotokan and say it's not effective, but the more devastating techniques are not taught to beginners (usually the people that make these comments). Kano on the other hand felt that a better way to do it would be to maintain his art as it was, but to create a whole new art that was suitable for children and for competition. Hence the creation of Judo. (and why Judo is also sometimes critisized for not being effective).

I'm not passing judgement of either style, just stating history as I have found it.

[Jiffy]

When funakoshi went to japan, Kano ( judo founder ) was impressed and asked funikoshi to stay and teach, It is believed that some judo was also added to funikoshi's karate. This was all done well before it was ever named shotokan, but yes throwing and grappling techniques can be interpeted from the Katas.

hahaha, you beat me to it.

[ps1]

I often find it strange also. The first thing I did when I began learning Shotokan was buy the master text (Karate Do Kyohan). There are clearly described grappling techniques near the end of it.

[Yasutsune Makoto]

I never knew there was throws or any ground work in shotokan, but apparently there is. So this brings me to the question, why does everyone think shotokna is purely a striking art then? Why isn't anything ever said in books and such? Sorry if this is the wrong place to post.

I think it's because that's not what people do in tournaments, and a lot of people's critique of shotokan is based on the tournament style.

Also, you need to get to a rather high level before you are taught those things, although some people begin to see them at much earlier stages in their training due to any number of reasons (i.e. books, intuition, accidental finding during bunkai training)

[tdiedwards]

I never knew there was throws or any ground work in shotokan, but apparently there is. So this brings me to the question, why does everyone think shotokna is purely a striking art then? Why isn't anything ever said in books and such? Sorry if this is the wrong place to post.

I think it's because that's not what people do in tournaments, and a lot of people's critique of shotokan is based on the tournament style.

Also, you need to get to a rather high level before you are taught those things, although some people begin to see them at much earlier stages in their training due to any number of reasons (i.e. books, intuition, accidental finding during bunkai training)

Do you think some schools might be putting ground work into the curiculum earlier than before because of the way MMA has popularised grappling? maybe potential students were being lost because they didn't perceive karate as a MA type that will provide them with these techniques?