Japanese vs english in training

[Brandon Fisher]

Very good explanation Killer.

[ps1]

It's true, but anyway you just need to hear it a tousand times and you memorize it, but it's something important to follow the tradition and yes it's easier to hear the names using a known language.

Whose tradition? I've said before that tradition is what you make it. The martial arts we all learn to day are so changed from their origional versions. "Traditional" martial arts are and always have been only practiced by the militaries of the world.

But I bet you don't say "Peacefull Mind One" when you're refering to Heian Shodan or "To Penetrate a Fortress, Minor Version" for Bassai-Sho.

Ok...you have me here. And I also call it Karate. However, it's more for expedience. I've pondered several times just calling them forms 1 through whatever. Point to you Triskel.

The terminology is a common reference so anyone can be 100% sure (sometimes since diferent arts use different names ) of what the sensei is saying...

My students do not misunderstand what I want to see. There is no longer another school for them to go to since my head instructor passed away. Should they choose to train in another school they are allowed to do so. But that school should teach its own verbiage.

By the way you're still being called sensei from time to time or you prefer to be called "Teacher"?? I'm not trying to insult but I'm sure you're still atached with a great part of the tradicionalism and japan terminology.

NO! I do not allow my students to call me Sensei. They call me Mr. Jones and my highest ranking student just calls me Bill. Sensei is much more than a teacher. Sensei is more of a guide through life and pointer of the way. Which brings up the main reason I don't use Japanese terminology. The Japanese speak in idiom and their language is almost an artform of itself. It is difficult for many Americans to fully comprehend the meaning of what is being said in full...so it gets summarized. Usually the summary does not do it justice. Therefore terms are misused in many many cases. If a student wanted to learn the terminology I would be happy to teach it...but they would learn it correctly. I would rather they spend their time learning the propermindset of training. Afterall...jikishin kore dojo. I do thank you for some spirited responses.

[Triskel]

Whose tradition? I've said before that tradition is what you make it. The martial arts we all learn to day are so changed from their origional versions.

Mmm I found this on Internet: "Tradition: A meme; custom or practice taught by one generation to another, often orally" [1] which is just the way Karate have passed to us, but anyway Yes, one can make the traditions and change them as well... And yes martial arts have changed a lot since the old times, but they are somehow "alive" and they must adapt themselves, and that's maybe the reason that traditional stuff is not as important as before... I'm not givin up yet, but I'm trying to have an open mind ...

"Traditional" martial arts are and always have been only practiced by the militaries of the world.

Mmmm I'm not sure about it... How about Shaolin Monks or japanese farmers trying to survive... anyway it's true that many militaries have adptem them becouse they are efffective but that's not a reason to let traditions out of them.

My students do not misunderstand what I want to see. There is no longer another school for them to go to since my head instructor passed away. Should they choose to train in another school they are allowed to do so. But that school should teach its own verbiage.

Mmmm but you can't guarantee that there won't be another school, or that maybe they move to other place and must go to other school... In that case they will find a disadvantage ... and that's what happens when you leave the standards and that's why they're important, as the example for musicians...

NO! I do not allow my students to call me Sensei. They call me Mr. Jones and my highest ranking student just calls me Bill. Sensei is much more than a teacher. Sensei is more of a guide through life and pointer of the way. Which brings up the main reason I don't use Japanese terminology. The Japanese speak in idiom and their language is almost an artform of itself. It is difficult for many Americans to fully comprehend the meaning of what is being said in full...so it gets summarized. Usually the summary does not do it justice. Therefore terms are misused in many many cases. If a student wanted to learn the terminology I would be happy to teach it...but they would learn it correctly. I would rather they spend their time learning the propermindset of training. Afterall...jikishin kore dojo. I do thank you for some spirited responses.

Sensei is more of a guide through life and pointer of the way. Isn't that the spirit of karate??

It's true what you say, It's (almost) imposible to us westerns to fully comprehend the japanese but well we sholdn't give up so easily... we are learning a way of living so we must learn and adapt it to us...

By the way I prefer this translation of Jikishin kore dojo: If you have an honest mind, everywhere is a Dojo

Thanks to you for you're responses as well, hope we can comprehend each other's vision of karate

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition

[bushido_man96]

When most of us talk to each other, we don't use other languages for things like countries. We don't call Spain Espana, we call Deutzchland Germany (not sure about that spelling), and I would bet that the most of us don't pronounce Brasil and Chille correctly, etc, etc.

If I say side kick instead of yeop chagi, it doesn't take anything away from it. The reason that most of the original Korean and Japanese masters taught in their own language is fairly simple: in most cases they probably could not speak very good English! (Just an opinion, could be wrong) I know the GM of my organization does not have the greatest English, and he is hard to understand from time to time.

Personally, I think we read too much into the language of all of it. When I was in the ATA, there was no Korean spoken, and I still felt like I was learning TKD.

[CheekyMusician]

When most of us talk to each other, we don't use other languages for things like countries. We don't call Spain Espana, we call Deutzchland Germany (not sure about that spelling), and I would bet that the most of us don't pronounce Brasil and Chille correctly, etc, etc.

If I say side kick instead of yeop chagi, it doesn't take anything away from it. The reason that most of the original Korean and Japanese masters taught in their own language is fairly simple: in most cases they probably could not speak very good English! (Just an opinion, could be wrong) I know the GM of my organization does not have the greatest English, and he is hard to understand from time to time.

Personally, I think we read too much into the language of all of it. When I was in the ATA, there was no Korean spoken, and I still felt like I was learning TKD.

But still, you still know that Germany can also be called Deutschland, even if you don't call it that yourself generally.

Fair enough, many English speaking martial artists might not use Japanese/Korean etc. every time they mention a technique, but they should still know what it is called in the original language in case they ever need to use that term.

As I say, using Japanese or Korean as a common denominator language is practical and doesn't exactly take a great deal of effort on the part of martial artists everywhere.

I know that personally I'm considering doing some travelling in the next few years and I plan to continue my training if I do go abroad, and its nice to know that if I end up in a country where i don't know a word of their language, that I'll still be able to keep up with them if they tell me to do a Yoki Geri Keage instead of telling me to do a side snap kick in their language.

[Killer Miller]

Good point CheekyMusician.

- Killer -

[bushido_man96]

I have no problems with learning Japanese or Korean names, in my case, for techniques, but I just don't think it is necessary.

I have said my peace.

[CheekyMusician]

I have no problems with learning Japanese or Korean names, in my case, for techniques, but I just don't think it is necessary.

I have said my peace.

I agree that it isn't STRICTLY necessary, but is most certainly practical, useful and respectful, and in the vast majority of cases the only thing that is stopping martial artists who don't learn the Japanese etc. is laziness, rather than anything else, although I'm sure that isn't the case with you and I'm sure you're well armed with all the correct terminology.

Osu

[MizuRyu]

We use Chinese in Ving Tsun and used Korean in Tang Soo Do. I enjoyed it, I've always believed in preserving the history and environment of an art.

[Punishment224]

I prefer japanese cause they do endless training sessions they even wake up early and jog around a temple or town think how strong they r