Pressure Points - mystical or basic biomechanics?

[elbows_and_knees]

I've personally seen someone have a gooseneck lock put on them and then have them lift the 90kg bouncer on the lock.

You'll have to explain to me what a gooseneck lock is, prefereable with pictures if you can find them, then whether or not the lock is applied from the clinch or the ground.

Have you had any locking/grappling experience? This is a fairly generic lock to most styles.

A goose neck is not common in arts like judo and bjj. It's something you find in jjj and chin na. I learned it in chin na, but it was not called a gooseneck, so I had to look up the name. I found a link describing what it was, and a post from a cop saying it's not something you use against someone REALLY trying to harm you. He said it's mainly for a semi compliant drunk.

http://www.karatekorner.com/messageboard/printthread.cfm?Forum=24&Topic=3524

[EclecticFighter]

While we're on the subject of pressure pojnts, I see a few people here give specific names to some pressure points (ex: Lung 5, TW17...) Is there a widely accepted method of naming the pressure points?

If yes, where can I find a human body chart with them and the explanation of the effect of each? It can be on the web or a book, as long as it's good

[elbows_and_knees]

there are charts on the web, but I wouldn't use them to study from - they won't tell you how to strike the point, whether to strike or rub, when qi flow is strongest in that area, etc. but if you just want them for reference, do a search.

[Jiffy]

I've personally seen someone have a gooseneck lock put on them and then have them lift the 90kg bouncer on the lock.

You'll have to explain to me what a gooseneck lock is, prefereable with pictures if you can find them, then whether or not the lock is applied from the clinch or the ground.

Have you had any locking/grappling experience? This is a fairly generic lock to most styles.

A goose neck is not common in arts like judo and bjj. It's something you find in jjj and chin na. I learned it in chin na, but it was not called a gooseneck, so I had to look up the name. I found a link describing what it was, and a post from a cop saying it's not something you use against someone REALLY trying to harm you. He said it's mainly for a semi compliant drunk.

http://www.karatekorner.com/messageboard/printthread.cfm?Forum=24&Topic=3524

Correct, it is not found in Judo. Judo is JJJ that was watered down for safety as a sport. As this lock is devastating, it was taken out in favour of locks with greater motor movement (eg. Arm bar). I'm not sure why it's not used in BJJ, maybe the same reason.

As for it's effectiveness, refer above. I dispute it is not effective on a fully resisting subject (although difficult to apply in some situations).

Aside from that, the point is, I've seen someone completely ignore the lock. No easy feat if you ask someone who has had one put on properly.

[bushido_man96]

It just depends on how much they want to grit their teeth through the pain just to hurt somebody else. Sometimes the willpower can get them through the pain.

I know this probably isn't likely, but it could happen.

[tke010]

A really good book - describing the pressure point names, where they are located, how to attack them, what damage they cause - is the Pressure Point Atlas, which can be found on

http://dragonsociety.com/catalog/

The gooseneck lock can be devastating, but there are people out there that do not feel pressure points on their wrists. In that case you will need to just break there wrist by using more power. (but be ready for the consequences of this - jail, being sued,...)

If you apply any lock, and it looks like its not working, immediately move to something else (a different lock, a strike, a kick).

Also, be ready for your opponent to counter your lock attempt, you never know what the other guy knows...

I have been to over 15 of the DSI Pressure Point Seminars, they are great!

If you can get to one, I recommend you attend.

[EclecticFighter]

A really good book - describing the pressure point names, where they are located, how to attack them, what damage they cause - is the Pressure Point Atlas, which can be found on

http://dragonsociety.com/catalog/

Thank you very much! This looks like a most excellent book to investigate!

[TriangleMan]

I've personally seen someone have a gooseneck lock put on them and then have them lift the 90kg bouncer on the lock.

You'll have to explain to me what a gooseneck lock is' date=' prefereable with pictures if you can find them, then whether or not the lock is applied from the clinch or the ground.[/quote']

Have you had any locking/grappling experience? This is a fairly generic lock to most styles.

A goose neck is not common in arts like judo and bjj. It's something you find in jjj and chin na. I learned it in chin na, but it was not called a gooseneck, so I had to look up the name. I found a link describing what it was, and a post from a cop saying it's not something you use against someone REALLY trying to harm you. He said it's mainly for a semi compliant drunk.

http://www.karatekorner.com/messageboard/printthread.cfm?Forum=24&Topic=3524

Correct, it is not found in Judo. Judo is JJJ that was watered down for safety as a sport..

Watch how you use the term "watered down." I prefer to say that Judo refined their techniques more so than "watered down" the style- after all, they did do quite a good job of defeating all but one JJJ school when they emerged.

As this lock is devastating, it was taken out in favour of locks with greater motor movement (eg. Arm bar). I'm not sure why it's not used in BJJ, maybe the same reason...

Now that I think Im familiar with what this lock is (thanks to Elbows and knees- it looks like a wristlock) I've seen it before and I think its ridiculous- I had someone show it to me before and I didnt like it, for the simple fact that while you're attempting to set up the lock you're very vulnerable to being hit by the other hand, your opponent shrugging out of it, etc. When it was shown to me (by someone who thought he had a clue about grappling-thats a shot at him, not anyone who teaches the move) I simply just turned it into an armdrag and went to my opponents back, from which position I had the option of setting up a choke, a chicken wing, both, and an assortment of other moves. On top of that, by being on my opponents back, I was also safe should he decide to start fighting me

[TriangleMan]

Unfortunately, putting chokes on a hospital patient is not allowed. How do you propose to move with someone when they are on a hospital bed horizontally and you are standing vertically on the floor? You are looking at it from a viewpoint of a dojo and in the scenario of an attacker. Now try to control someone who feels no pain, has increadible strength compared to usual, is in an akward position, is in the way of railing etc, for whom you have duty of care to (cannot injure them), while still protecting nurses and still adhering to local law as well as hospital policy. This is why I say that if anyone has not been there, they cannot comprehend how difficult it is to restrain someone with these restrictions.

Wrap their own arm around their head, ala Rickson Gracie beatdown from the mount- This prevents the person from turning towards you at which point you can either hold their hip or other arm to prevent them from turning the other way- if there is two of you, you have the option of letting one person secure the hold while the other can make use of the other side of their body to put them in a russian tie, making it virtually impossible for this person to do anything but flail their legs.

[bushido_man96]

I have used the goose neck lock in Combat Hapkido, and we used it as an escort lock. What I don't like about it is that it is started from a wrist grab. I think if a way to do it from another starting point could be used, it may be more useful. Once it is there, you have them locked in pretty tight, though.