Pressure Points - mystical or basic biomechanics?

[Jiffy]

Elbows and Knees, you raised one great point I wish to agree with.... pain tolerence.

All pain compliance (locks, pressure points, arm bars etc) rely on pain. Pain is an emotion and is therefore controllable. The amount pain inflicted will be a direct result of the persons pain tollerance as well as their physical make-up. There are no guarantees that these will work. In addition, I too have dealt with many people high as a kite on drugs, and trust me, these people feel no pain. It once took us 4 guys of about 90-100+ kgs to hold a girl of about 75kgs to a hospital bed.

[bushido_man96]

I don't think pain is an emotion, I think it is elicited by certain factors, but the body produces endorphins to suppress it. Some people release more endorphins than others, which enables them to tolerate more pain than others.

I believe this: some people have a high pain tolerance. Some don't feel pain as much as others. Some ignore it. And some like it.

[TriangleMan]

Elbows and Knees, you raised one great point I wish to agree with.... pain tolerence.

All pain compliance (locks, pressure points, arm bars etc) rely on pain. Pain is an emotion and is therefore controllable. The amount pain inflicted will be a direct result of the persons pain tollerance as well as their physical make-up.

Locks and arm bars do not rely on pain for them to work- they destroy the structures that hold the surrounding limb in place, so while is is possible (but highly improbably) that someone will continue fighting after you've broken their arm, they will be much less of a risk to you since they'll not be able to use that arm anymore

There are no guarantees that these will work. In addition, I too have dealt with many people high as a kite on drugs, and trust me, these people feel no pain. It once took us 4 guys of about 90-100+ kgs to hold a girl of about 75kgs to a hospital bed.

There is a possibility that you may not have known how to hold her.

[alsey]

submissions depend on pain (and fear of injury), but you can always just break with an armbar, or kill with a choke.

some pressure points have nothing to do with pain, and will simply induce an unconcious reflex which might make it easier to lock up a limb or make a strike. but these points have the same problems as any other.

[elbows_and_knees]

The advatage of PP or DM only comes through when it's gradually integrated with a decent level of fighting skill. If you can't fight then all the PP knowledge is pretty much useless. The PP & DM I've witnessed is traditional Chinese medicine points hit with a conditoned fist, fingers or grip.

conditioned fist or not, you will still have to have the accuracy - under adrenaline rush and a resisting opponent - to strike those points. your iron palm is useless if you can't strike where you need to, in terms of pressure points. The easiest way to strike said points is to learn how to grapple. Then, I can control you, increasing my accuracy tenfold.

[Jiffy]

I don't think pain is an emotion, I think it is elicited by certain factors, but the body produces endorphins to suppress it. Some people release more endorphins than others, which enables them to tolerate more pain than others.

I believe this: some people have a high pain tolerance. Some don't feel pain as much as others. Some ignore it. And some like it.

Thanks for that. That's what I was trying to say, but couldn't think of the right word...

[Jiffy]

Locks and arm bars do not rely on pain for them to work- they destroy the structures that hold the surrounding limb in place, so while is is possible (but highly improbably) that someone will continue fighting after you've broken their arm, they will be much less of a risk to you since they'll not be able to use that arm anymore

There are 3 levels of control the first two do not require you to break the arm. If you are using PAIN COMPLIANCE, then you are gaining COMPLIANCE through the use of PAIN. If you snap the arm, this is something different again.

There is a possibility that you may not have known how to hold her.

Ummmmm, no. Unless you've been there, you wouldn't understand.

[TriangleMan]

There is a possibility that you may not have known how to hold her.

Ummmmm' date=' no. Unless you've been there, you wouldn't understand.[/quote']

Hey, dont take it the wrong way- all Im saying is that you're probably much more experienced in your standup arts than you are your grappling arts- how long have you been training in BJJ/submission grappling? I dont care how much of an adrenaline dump a girl goes on- if I pin her to the ground and dont want her to move, shes not going to move. Not so much because shes a girl, but simply because I know how to hold her.

[ps1]

There is a possibility that you may not have known how to hold her.

Ummmmm' date=' no. Unless you've been there, you wouldn't understand.[/quote']

Hey, dont take it the wrong way- all Im saying is that you're probably much more experienced in your standup arts than you are your grappling arts- how long have you been training in BJJ/submission grappling? I dont care how much of an adrenaline dump a girl goes on- if I pin her to the ground and dont want her to move, shes not going to move. Not so much because shes a girl, but simply because I know how to hold her.

Triangle Man is correct here. I've held down 250+ pound men without the need of pain compliance. It's about proper biomechanics. Again, that doesn't make you a poor martial artist. Just means you should learn/ train proper technique in this area.

[Jiffy]

Yes, but how many of those scenarios were they smacked out on heroin? Trust me, that makes all the difference!

I too have held down many people bigger than myself, but not when they are high as a kite!

I'm not taking offence and not criticising what you are saying. In your experience, you are right. All I'm saying is that if you've never tried to control someone that is experiencing drug abuse, you couldn't possibly be expected to understand. I have never yet met a security officer yet who didn't underestimate the effect it would have.