Karate and the Mat

[pittbullJudoka]

It's absolutely imperative a fighter be comfortable in all quarters. Anything can go wrong and you can't always dictate where/how a battle will be fought. It really makes me laugh when some of my karate contemporaries insist that they don't need to learn grappling because they are skillful enough to stay off the ground.

As for this guy, we can't get him to go near the mat now and he always insists on no grappling when we spar (I thought he knew how to wrestle?). I feel for him if he ever gets in a real fight.

With respect,

Sohan

Sohan I can agree with this statement.Where I train a stand up style is taught but we grapple alot and do alot of mma style sparring.I also have guys who have great stand up and decent ground skills but hate being on the ground unless they're in the mount or side control.

I am a better clinch and ground fighter and I have problems with guys not wanting to fight from the bottom even when they have a large weight and strength advantage on me.After a round is up and I have had the advantage on the ground they'll say something about if it was a real fight.

My first thought is when that is said is if it were a real fight when I had you in side control I would have kneed you in the head to end it quick.Some also say they like mixing it up sparring and will do what ever it it takes to aviod a take down even if it is running from their opponent for the entire round.

[parkerlineage]

I find that one should play off one's strenghts when it comes to mixed fighting like that. I'm tall, but not terribly bulky, and most of my height is in my legs. When it comes down to the clinch or the ground, I'll use my height, speed, and flexibility to get into a position from which I can lever people off of me, then get up before they can and start hitting from standing.

My favorite technique is to intentionally but subtly offer my front leg, or look like I have my weight back, then, when they come in for a takedown, do a 180 and smack them with my other foot, then take them down.

Am I incorrect in assuming that the best position is you standing and them on the ground?

[Sohan]

It's absolutely imperative a fighter be comfortable in all quarters. Anything can go wrong and you can't always dictate where/how a battle will be fought. It really makes me laugh when some of my karate contemporaries insist that they don't need to learn grappling because they are skillful enough to stay off the ground.

As for this guy, we can't get him to go near the mat now and he always insists on no grappling when we spar (I thought he knew how to wrestle?). I feel for him if he ever gets in a real fight.

With respect,

Sohan

Sohan I can agree with this statement.Where I train a stand up style is taught but we grapple alot and do alot of mma style sparring.I also have guys who have great stand up and decent ground skills but hate being on the ground unless they're in the mount or side control.

I am a better clinch and ground fighter and I have problems with guys not wanting to fight from the bottom even when they have a large weight and strength advantage on me.After a round is up and I have had the advantage on the ground they'll say something about if it was a real fight.

My first thought is when that is said is if it were a real fight when I had you in side control I would have kneed you in the head to end it quick.Some also say they like mixing it up sparring and will do what ever it it takes to aviod a take down even if it is running from their opponent for the entire round.

So true. It's also funny how many strikers claim that they'll rain punches down on you if you take them to the ground, but then they're so uncomfortable being off their feet that all they can think about is getting back up instead of kneeing or striking. They forget that being on the ground provides plenty of opportunities to win, and the more comfortable you are there the more likely you'll have the confidence to use your fighting skills effectively.

I've met plenty of sub grapplers who couldn't connect well with good strikers on their feet, but get them horizontal and who becomes the better striker?

With respect,

Sohan

[css1971]

Thats human nature get knocked down get back up. It is a naturla habit that needs to be broke.

Um, how do you defend yourself against your attacker's mates if you are on the ground? How do you run away if you are on the ground? Although you're practicing ground fighting, shouldn't getting up as quickly as possible be the primary goal?

[Brandon Fisher]

Don't get me wrong I still feel it is better to stay on your feet or get up quickly but that doesn't always happen.

[bushido_man96]

Sohan: It's absolutely imperative a fighter be comfortable in all quarters. Anything can go wrong and you can't always dictate where/how a battle will be fought. It really makes me laugh when some of my karate contemporaries insist that they don't need to learn grappling because they are skillful enough to stay off the ground.

I agree with you here that ground training is very important in all MA training, and learning to fight in all quarters. Unfortunately for me, I have no way of practicing ground combat unless it is impromptu. And in this case, it may not be a very constructive learning experience. So, I just try to keep my wits about me and try to think of what I would do if I did get taken down.

[Sohan]

Sohan: It's absolutely imperative a fighter be comfortable in all quarters. Anything can go wrong and you can't always dictate where/how a battle will be fought. It really makes me laugh when some of my karate contemporaries insist that they don't need to learn grappling because they are skillful enough to stay off the ground.

I agree with you here that ground training is very important in all MA training, and learning to fight in all quarters. Unfortunately for me, I have no way of practicing ground combat unless it is impromptu. And in this case, it may not be a very constructive learning experience. So, I just try to keep my wits about me and try to think of what I would do if I did get taken down.

Here's what I'd do in your case: go to BJJ.org, or subfighter.com. Download some videos or print out instructions on takedowns, throws, escapes, sweeps, and a couple submissions, as well as ways to pass the guard. Pick out a couple of each technique and practice them carefully with a buddy, over and over until they become second nature. Spend as much time on your back as on top, and learn to establish your dominant position. Learn all you can on your own about groundfighting by reading as much as you can, but focus on just a few techniques over and over.

Will this be as good as training with a Gracie black belt? No, of course not. Could it save your life on the ground with a thug who wants to tackle you and pound you to oblivion? Absolutely.

I am of the resolute opinion that it is not all or nothing in grappling. Anything you learn about groundfighting will be helpful, even if it's not perfectly taught. A less-than-perfect technique that works against an untrained assailant is better than nothing. Besides, how many times will you ever be fighting for your life against an Abu Dhabi champion?

I think at times we delude ourselves into thinking that we have to always have professional instruction in every martial technique or else we shouldn't waste our time, at the risk of developing poor form or bad habits. However, experienced martial artists will have a much easier time learning new techniques on their own than beginners, in any case. And if you don't have access to quality instruction, what should you do? Just sit around and wait for your next beating by the local thugs? Bruce Lee learned the art of Wing Chun under his master Yip Man, and had a voracious appetite for learning from others, but he made self-instruction a major part of his learning process. He had a collection of books on various fighting styles that would shame the US Library of Congress.

In the long run, professional instruction is certainly the optimal way to go to learn a martial art, but I know plenty of fighters who have learned BJJ or wrestling or judo on their own with a buddy and gotten quite proficient without a member of the Machado clan analyzing their every move. Will you be able to win a national grappling tourney this way? Probably not, but just as my son learning how to swim without professional lessons may not necessarily get him to the Olympics, it may certainly save his life someday.

With respect,

Sohan

[lordtariel]

Thats human nature get knocked down get back up. It is a naturla habit that needs to be broke.

Um, how do you defend yourself against your attacker's mates if you are on the ground? How do you run away if you are on the ground? Although you're practicing ground fighting, shouldn't getting up as quickly as possible be the primary goal?

It's not a matter of getting up quickly that I was referring to, it's a matter of getting up safely.

[lordtariel]

Pick out a couple of each technique and practice them carefully with a buddy, over and over until they become second nature.

Sohan

Make sure some of the techniques you pick up include proper falling. It's dangerous to huck someone who doesn't know how to fall correctly.

[Brandon Fisher]

Safetly and quickly almost go together. If there is a delay that can be bad.