uniformity

[daizyblackbelt]

That's an excellent point patusai.

I've learned bo kata's from Sensei Toshihiro Oshiro and some of his students and they will teach a different version of the kata each time, depending on what they feel you need to work on. For example sometimes the kata suuji no kun will have a sweep in it, sometimes it won't, and still others it will have a sweep parry and poke.

Frustrating to say the least (because you never know which is "correct") but an eye-opener in terms of different interpretations.

[patusai]

Yes it can be frustrating. I was going to say that correct is what you have been taught but then when you teach the kata what is correct for you may not be what is correct for your student unless his/her needs are the same as yours were. Now I am more confused then ever

[daizyblackbelt]

welcome to the club!

IMO, if you're doing a martial art and not asking questions and feeling confused you're doing something wrong (or you're a master)!

[Whitefeather]

IMO, if you're doing a martial art and not asking questions and feeling confused you're doing something wrong (or you're a master)!

Smack dab on the button!

I think it is good to see purposeful/meaningful differences in kata, as they are excellent eye openers. The one thing I would not want to see would be someone doing a kata--one which I know--radically (or slightly, for that matter) different from the way I know it, and if those changes were purely for asthetic purposes, and through those changes, some of the meaning of the kata being lost. That is the number one way to send me into orbit (along with smacking on your gum).

Just my two cents,

David

[jaymac]

I think if you are running a dojo, uniformity in kata is a must. Change the interpretation of the kata in timing and speed, but I wouldn't change stances etc... If I teach someone Bassai Dai and he changes something in it and teaches it to someone else and they change something in the kata, and ... you lose the true form of that kata. Yes, I have seen different interpretation of that kata, but the whole school is doing exactly what has been shown to them by their instructor. Who wants to work kata in a class one night and have everyone doing the same kata differently?

[Brandon Fisher]

I think it should be consistent in a certain style and organization especially in a within the same dojo. That way everyone learns it the same way and then later teaches it that way.

[daizyblackbelt]

I think it should be consistent in a certain style and organization especially in a within the same dojo. That way everyone learns it the same way and then later teaches it that way.

I agree, but doesn't there also need to be room for expansion, progression, and evolution?

Pure consistency, while great for preserving things, breeds complacency and stagnation.

This is me kind of playing devil's advocate here (as I am quite the traditionalist), but i also believe it's important that consistency not be the GOAL of a dojo. I agree that it makes teaching MUCH easier. But isn't it reasonable to say that once you have passed beyond the kyu ranks that experimentation should be allowed?

The kata we perform were not handed down from god, they we developped by men, and there's nothing to say that they can't be changed or that new katas should not be created by those who understand the art.

In the end, I'm not really quite sure what to think about this...but it' fun to talk about!

[Brandon Fisher]

I agree, but doesn't there also need to be room for expansion, progression, and evolution?

Absolutely there should but here what I am getting at. If the organization says do to it this way who is some brand new shodan with less then 6 years experience to change the movement completely then claim it was taught that way. This actually happened to me on several occasions with the old organization, then the grandmaster who didn't know any kata just the steps of a few would defend the shodan. What I am saying is if the organization changes something to make it better then thats the way it should be across the board if they do not change it then it shouldn't be changed.

[daizyblackbelt]

Now that, is a crappy situation. What's with the grandmaster not knowing any kata...?

In any event, I'm with you on the thought that changes made by the organization should be universal. It doesn't do at all to have three different version of a kata floating around the same dojo, all with different moves and applications.

I suppose that what I'm trying to say is that a kata can be PERSONALIZED. By that I mean timing, targeting (to an extent), small changes in the way a move is done (to emphasize a different application), and things of that nature. I don't approve of changing the stances or pattern of the kata unless the person has a physical disability of some kind that prevents them from performing it. (That's a problem I've run into before when teaching, but I tried to strike a balance and make them push themselves rather than just take out the move completely).

[Brandon Fisher]

David,

Good post!! Yes it is very sad especially when he claimed it being a off shoot of Shotokan. Let me correct something here a little he knew a little about Naihanchi Shodan the rest he picked up watching me teach and practice but never truly learned them.

As far as a physical problem I adjusted Kusanku Dai or Kanku Dai for my wife do to her extreme dizzyness which is caused from a birth defect that we just recently discovered that left her without the bone that protects her ear tube from over expanding and causing a balance and dizzy issue. Instead of dropping all the way down she steps out into a deep zenkutsu dachi and leans forward a little. Hope that makes some sense its kinda hard to describe. Is that the kind of adjustment you would make?