Sabaki or linear

[tsuki]

Hi Everyone.

I had been studying Wing Chun for a little while,however I personally found it not to my liking-I don't need go into any detail of why.

I've decided to go back into karate .I used to do Kyokushin many years ago,but now there seems to be more offshoots of this style then ever before.Kyokushin tends to be a more linear style ? while the offshoots such as Ashihara,Enshin,and more recently Shintaiikudo emphasize the Sabaki method ,generally moving to the blind spot of the attacker to defend oneself and attack the opponent.I am just wondering interms of self defence,eventhough this Sabaki method sounds sensible in theory, how does it play out in a real street confontation.Does one have the time ,the speed or the foresight to move away from the attack?Does the environment /surroundings,indeed allow one to move away from the attack?

Any comments ,greatly appreciated

[RichardHangHong]

I'm sorry but I don't know very much about kyokushin.

In relation to sabaki vs linear I think it all depends on which you've trained in more and what the situation is.

If you never practise side stepping or tai sabaki then you're not going to use it in a self defence situation. Same goes for linear movements of stepping forward and back although it is far more likely that people practise that.

I never really got to start practising sabaki movements until a few years ago and it's been even more so in the last year as I feel it's an area I'm weak on, regularly leaving myself exposed.

The environment indeed makes a great difference in how you react. If you have things blocking your path you have limited movements available to you so instinctively you want to get to a point/area where you have more available to you. Hence why trying to get through a gap would be the first response. This depends on the fight/flight response though.

[ps1]

I agree with Richard. If you can move out of the way...do it. If you aren't afforded that opportunity, you should know how to defend linearly (sp?). It will all come with time and training. Good luck with your new training.

[Meguro]

I used to do Kyokushin many years ago,but now there seems to be more offshoots of this style then ever before.Kyokushin tends to be a more linear style ? while the offshoots such as Ashihara,Enshin,and more recently Shintaiikudo emphasize the Sabaki method ,generally moving to the blind spot of the attacker to defend oneself and attack the opponent.

I don't think Kyokushin is linear, though I do admit that backing-up is frowned upon. Given that, you can hold your ground and fight, press forward, circle left, or circle right. Pressing forward or holding your ground are hard tactics to employ against a larger opponent Against larger opponents I will use sabaki, not to ends up in me getting clobbered.

[marie curie]

I don't know anything about Kyokushin, either, but I did kung fu after years of karate, and found that the different movement is beneficial in some cercumstances, but, in general, the faster- shorter line between two points is more practically useful in a fight against another martial artist- we are usually fast enough that it matters; however, in a bar fight or something, I think that the avoiding moves are beneficial

[Dragn]

I dont understand why it has to be one or the other.

To be an effective fighter you need to be able to move in all directions, according to the situation at hand. Including backward. Limiting yourself to just one method of movement makes no sense to me.

I hate it when some kyokushin fighters stand pushing up against each other refusing to move back but unable to grab either. Like a couple of bulls refusing to give ground. It just looks so rediculous to me.

Kazumi sensei is a kyokushin fighter who used sabaki well. I really enjoyed watching him fight.

[Meguro]

I hate it when some kyokushin fighters stand pushing up against each other refusing to move back but unable to grab either. Like a couple of bulls refusing to give ground. It just looks so rediculous to me.

Kazumi sensei is a kyokushin fighter who used sabaki well. I really enjoyed watching him fight.

Gotta agree with you there. Can't grab, can't punch 'em in the nose. What's a fella to do. I had one class with Kazumi Sensei, back when he was still with Kyokushin. Ironically, he didn't give me any pointers on fighting but he did make some correction in my kata.

[Yasutsune Makoto]

I dont understand why it has to be one or the other.

To be an effective fighter you need to be able to move in all directions, according to the situation at hand. Including backward. Limiting yourself to just one method of movement makes no sense to me.

here here!

[Osu No Seichin]

The essence of Kyokushin is circular motion. To say that Kyokushin is to linear goes against all we are taught or teach. The whole theory behind our techniques is the circle and point. I suggest you go and find yourself a good Kyokushin instructor who really knows what they are doing or obtain some of Sosai Oyama's books and do some research. I still find it amusing that when people talk about Kyokushin it is all about the way we fight in tournaments. I have heard a senior Shihan state many times that tournament fighting is but 1% of your karate life if even that. I teach many classes where the whole emphazies is on grabbing, throwing, face punches, joint locks, arm bars and all the other techniques that everyone seems to think Kyokushin students don't do. Where did I learn them? From someone who was there at the start. And for those of you that seem to forget, Kyokushin was more than a couple decades old before the tournaments came along, so what did they train before that, come on down to the dojo one night and we will be happy to show you.

Osu

[Andrew_Patton]

Of course Kyokushin has all those things you've stated, many people don't seem to realize that sosai Oyama was a fourth degree in Judo afterall. But of course everyone also seems to think that all karate if it isn't Kyokushin is simply point fighting. Of course, I believe that all martial arts should have a little more lineancy on competition rules, i.e. if a style has a particular set of techniques that aren't allowed to come out during competition (i.e. throws and grappling in ALL karate) then you need to expand to include those things. (barring of course all those nice finger strikes to the groin, eyes, throat, etc that are to 'deadly' to try out)