Royce vs. Hughes Post-Fight Feelings

[UseoForce]

Right now, I'd say I'm somewhat ashamed of Royce. I've always supported him and the other Gracies so much. Heck, the amount I spend on his books could feed the kids and pay the rent itself!

I'm not ashamed of Royce because he lost. Matt Hughes is an incredible fighter. I knew in my mind that Hughes would win, but my heart was rooting for Royce. It is the way Gracie lost that saddens me.

-He came into the fight in less-than-top condition. There is NO EXCUSE for that.

-His entire performance was listless at best.

-He got beat on the floor. NEARLY SUBMITTED?! What about sharks in the ocean, Royce?

-He didn't really seem to take the fight (or the preparation) seriously. Anyone catch the hype show on Spike? Compare Matt's training to Gracie's. No contest.

-He seemed to care more about a 1.5 MILLION dollar pay-day than winning the fight.

I didn't expect Royce to win. I DID expect him to be in shape. I DID expect him to fight with some fire. I DID expect him to do alright on the ground, even if he could only weather a couple rounds of Matt Hughes's GNP. I DID expect him to at least try a submission.

Everyone loses to Matt Hughes. He's awesome. But if you gotta lose, lose like Carlos Newton and go for a triangle. Lose like St. Pierre and tag him a couple of times. I look forward to watching Karo Parisyan fight Hughes (I think Karo actually stands a chance).

Your thoughts on this fight?

[granmasterchen]

I agree with you that matt took the fight too gracie and sent him home with what he said he'd do, "i want him to stand up and barely be able to look out of his eyes and say that this sport has changed" i think he did that well....not exactly as he said it, he predicted 3 rounds, and it didn't even make 2. At the end gracie's right eye did seem pretty swollen along with the rest of that side of his head. And i think that the entire gracie family will be going home with a new thought in their minds, " they are NOT the ultimate style". I never liked the gracies for the whole reason of their arrogance, they are all good, very good, i'll give them that, but their cockiness lead to the beating that he received last night.

I would like to see a younger member of the gracie family try to fight matt, and see how that goes, i think it would be the same result. I'm very glad the fight happened the way it did, I hope that it opens the eyes of many people who believed that gracie jui jitsu was unbeatable. I hope people understand now that no one style is perfect, their is no best style, and no person is unbeatable.....sorry for my rant i could go on forever from multiple angles on this but i'll leave that for later.

[shotokanwarrior]

I think matt should fight ken shamrock or kimo, thats a good old school vs. new school matchup. No weight limits in old school.

[Jersey Devil]

-He came into the fight in less-than-top condition. There is NO EXCUSE for that.

Royce was in great condition- hes always in great condition, he was training alot for that fight. Dont judge a fighters conditioning by their physique- this isnt body building here. Im seen plenty of fighters who look like they're in good physical conditioning (such as James Thompson and Ken Shamrock) only to see them gas in a few seconds, and I've seen other fighters with a less than admirable physique (such as Fedor Emilianenko and "Cabbage") and see them appear to be cardio machines.

-His entire performance was listless at best.

-He got beat on the floor. NEARLY SUBMITTED?! What about sharks in the ocean, Royce?

Royce fought someone who was a better fighter in every aspect than he was. Hughes is younger, stronger, more athletic and BETTER than Royce is. Royce's jiu jitsu was never particularly good, many people just made that assumption because he submitted everyone in the old UFC's. The whole sharks and the ocean thing was pawned by Jean Jaques Machado and was in reference to people who didnt know jiu jitsu- every mixed martial artist nowadays knows jiu jitsu, and many of them would toy around with and submit Royce from one side of the octagon to the other.

-He didn't really seem to take the fight (or the preparation) seriously. Anyone catch the hype show on Spike? Compare Matt's training to Gracie's. No contest.

You're seeing what the media wants you to see. Matt's rather open about his training- Royce isnt. The relaxed mindset you see in the Gracie camp stems from philosophies such as "fight have no time limit" and "maximum efficientcy minimum strength." Its just the way they train, and there is nothing wrong with it.

-He seemed to care more about a 1.5 MILLION dollar pay-day than winning the fight.

He was pretty upset that he lost the way he did, but a 1.5 million dollar paycheck can do a good job of consoling you for a moment.

I didn't expect Royce to win. I DID expect him to be in shape. I DID expect him to fight with some fire. I DID expect him to do alright on the ground, even if he could only weather a couple rounds of Matt Hughes's GNP. I DID expect him to at least try a submission.

Matt Hughes is simply way too good for Royce, its that simple. Royce's jiu jitsu has been promoted as being godlike because of early UFC's and because of his family name. If you were to put Royce in there with the likes of a BJ Penn or Renato Verissimo, it would be like a black belt in BJJ vs a purple belt. This isnt a knock on Royce but rather a reaffirmation of just how good these other guys are and how much trouble they still had with Hughes on the ground. Matt is a better wrestler, striker, AND jiu jitsu fighter than Royce is.

Everyone loses to Matt Hughes. He's awesome. But if you gotta lose, lose like Carlos Newton and go for a triangle. Lose like St. Pierre and tag him a couple of times. I look forward to watching Karo Parisyan fight Hughes (I think Karo actually stands a chance).

Newton has better jiu jitsu than Royce, and even nearly submitted Renzo if a recall (who is also much better on the ground than Royce). St Pierre has standup- Royce does not.

You're blaming Royce for not doing what he couldnt do in the first place. Royce is a solid jiu jitsu fighter and still a good nhb fighter, but he is not in the top elite anymore- today's fighters are trained better and so much more athletic than 10 years ago.

What made BJJ so appealing was that you could take someone like Royce, who looked like a regular skinny guy and teach him how to beat these men who looked like the cover of mens health magazine. After that happens and people realize how good BJJ is those same natrual athletes start training in BJJ- who would you have expected to win?

[UseoForce]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Royce, the Gracies, or Gracie Jiu-jitsu (I love jiu-jitsu!). Bottom line is Royce was totally unprepared for this fight and gave an embarassing performance. I'm not saying he should have won. I'm saying he should have put more into the fight and his training.

Shark Ocean thing:

What you said is true enough, but relatively speaking, Royce's jiu-jitsu SHOULD have made him into the proverbial shark. He's probably been training jiu-jitsu since before Matt was born.

Sad to see Royce lose like this.

[Jersey Devil]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Royce, the Gracies, or Gracie Jiu-jitsu (I love jiu-jitsu!). Bottom line is Royce was totally unprepared for this fight and gave an embarassing performance. I'm not saying he should have won. I'm saying he should have put more into the fight and his training.

Royce has been training to fight since he was a child, I dont think he can get any more prepared. Hes as good as hes ever going to be, unfortunately that also means that Matt Hughes is just so much more skilled a fighter than he is.

Shark Ocean thing:

What you said is true enough, but relatively speaking, Royce's jiu-jitsu SHOULD have made him into the proverbial shark. He's probably been training jiu-jitsu since before Matt was born.

Just because hes been training BJJ his entire life doesnt neccessarily mean that hes going to be better at it. Its been my experience that many of the top competitors start BJJ around their late teenage years or at the latest in their early 20's. Saulo Ribeiro and Andre Galvao for example have much less experience than every person with the last name Gracie (they started in their late teenage years) but they're still so much better at jiu jitsu.

[ps1]

I agree with Jersey Devil. Royce was just outclassed and WAY past his prime. It's rare that people can handle the necessary level of athletesism required for MMA. And that ability declines as the athelete ages.

You may have a point about the "late start" thing. But, having rolled with Saulo. The guy is just a freak of nature when it comes to Jiujitsu. Granted...when it comes to BJJ I'm not even close to expert, But rolling with Saulo is like trying to submit a exercise ball. But if you're right about the late start theory...I'll be awesome.

[Andrew_Patton]

Royce seemed way to passive with Matt, If I were him (and outweighed matt by around 90lbs ) I would definately try my hardest on the feet to get top position, there's no way I'd EVER want to be on the bottom with Hughes, and it really just seemed like Royce layed there and gave up about a min. into the fight.

[UseoForce]

Okay, Matt is awesome, but I refuse to believe that Royce had no chance whatsoever no matter how he trained.

By the way, I just read a statement by Royce on another site. Basically says what I said: He didn't train enough for this fight.

[bat in a birdless village]

I think matt should fight ken shamrock or kimo, thats a good old school vs. new school matchup. No weight limits in old school.

That would not prove much. Both Ken Shamrock and Kimo have terrible fight records. Ken's is 26 wins, 10 losses, and 2 draws. Many of those losses were against no-names and all recently. Kimo is at 10, 4, and 1.

Neither represent what would be considered today's top fighters. Yes, they may represent old school, as you said, but not top quality.

bat