Punching

[RichardHangHong]

Shotokan kumite is generally neater and therefore better suited for tournaments as the judges can see the techniques more easily IMHO

[Yasutsune Makoto]

I agree with you there but I think it is important to point out that although point-sparring is taking over the shotokan world, unfortunately, shotokan combat is still an effective means of fighting. To tie it in with this thread, of all the asian styles I've seen I don't think there is one that has such a devastating punch as shotokan. Even though they are strong, but I'm biased.

[cross]

Maybe it would help if we discussed HOW karateka actually apply the punching techniques they learn, because there are effective and in-effective ways to punch.

We all know how to do the basic punch, hand starts chambered, extends, twists just before impact, other hand does the exact opposite. But moving on from that, how does everyone perform the punch in sparring or when working on pads etc?

[Gyak]

When I move in for the gyak the other hand covers my face instead of pulling back to the hip. Back foot is right up and twisted round to get the hip in and pointing towards the opponent not at 45 degrees. (It faces the opponent during normal sparring aswell). Also I snap the punch back to emphasise it more and make it look like a cleaner technique so that it is more likley to score.

[Yasutsune Makoto]

when working on pads I like to hit with a vertical punch, it helps keep your hands from tearing.

Training from a middle block position can also help develop your power and getting your hip into it without needing to have a huge chamber, but this is just a drill to enhance your technique, not really an alternate way to throw the punch.

[Meguro]

Shotokan kumite is generally neater and therefore better suited for tournaments as the judges can see the techniques more easily IMHO

Is it possible to judge the efficacy of something because of how it looks? Is this an argument of form over substance? This reminds me of threads where writers rave about the fighting prowess of movie actors-they look so awesome!

This is only my opinion, but the efficacy of a punch/kick, should be measured in the context of where it's going to be used. I feel completely comfortable with the argument that George Foreman, in a boxing ring, was a devastatiing puncher. I am less convinced by an argument that a point fighter, pick any one, excels in fighting in other venues outside of point fighting. This is like saying that George Foreman was also a great bare-knuckle fighter because he was a champion boxer. Maybe. Maybe not. In the case of George, I have no interest in finding out first hand.

[elbows_and_knees]

I've noticed that the way we punch in Karate differs from western boxing. In boxing, the punch looks like its thrown from the shoulder and in Karate, the punch's power is generated from the hip. I tried using the traditional karate punch in sparring and I got whopped. Is the standard karate punch effective in certain situations or is just altogether impractical? Would it be best for karatekas to cross-train in boxing and abandon traditional hand punches or try to speed up their traditional strikes? I'd like to hear some thoughts on the issue.

boxers do NOT punch from the shoulder....don't ever let one hear you say that. karate's reverse punch is identical to boxing's right cross. the footwork and hand position (chambering of the other hand) are different, but the punch is the same. I can't see your punch, but my initial guess is that it's too slow.

[elbows_and_knees]

I'd have to disagree Gyak, if you put two exactly the same people and one does a boxing punch (from the shoulder) and one does a karate punch (with the hip) i'd say the Karate would be stronger as you are putting your wholebody behind the punch. Either way wouldn't like to be punched by either.

why would you think boxers don't punch from the hip? watch the uppercut, hook and cross. they are all from the hip. the motion is smaller because they are better at it, generally. we throw *literally* hundreds to thousands of punches per day, so over time, we learn to make the motion much smaller - tighter and faster while still producing the same amount of power.

[elbows_and_knees]

I have heard of experiment that was done in the 90's with a pro boxer and a 5th dan black belt and the karateka hit much harder.

studies like this will depend on the people you are testing, not what style they train. you will be hard pressed to find someone from any style who punches harder than tyson.

[jaymac]

I can say I have never seen anyone who was sparring, throw a "karate syle" punch, traditional or non traditional. Guards always up and blocking the face. Use hips to gain power behind strikes.