Masahiko Kimura vs Helion Gracie

[TJS]

I know there is Groundwork, but I was under the impression the Gaurd was not taught in Judo?

[Sho-ju]

It is. I think the biggest difference is the amount of sub combo's done from you back. Kano was a big wrestling fan and used a lot of wrestling in Judo so you will find Judoka like the top a lot better, after all you can win with a 25 sec. hold down in Judo.

 

Sho-ju

[ZR440]

"so when you step out of the ring it looses it's effectiveness? what about stlyes that cant win IN a ring with limited rules? if it dosent work in a simple 1 vs 1 competition why would it work better else where? to me the ring is a better test than anything else or than real fighting..whitch isint practicaal as a means of testing.."

 

The street is an uncontrolled environment that has no rules.

[TJS]

so stlyes that dont have succes under limited rules have a better chance than those that do?

[Treebranch]

Fact is that MA's that train for the ring work in the ring. A ring fighter can fight there's no doubt about that, whether it is in the street or the ring. I think the problem is that there are MA's that are not designed for the ring and most of the people who have tried there hand at MMA competitions got destroyed. I don't think the style were to blame, it was the training of that MA that was at fault, and the fighter. If you notice the styles that do well in competitive fighting are MA's that have always competed, they just added grappling to there arsenal to make them more effective in these type of competitions. If it is a grappling and striking based fight, well the fighter with a good balance of the two will do well. If it is primarily a Kickboxing event, than the better Kickboxer will win etc. So in competitive fighting you know that your opponent is skilled in roughly the same style of fighting as you are, so you kinda know what to expect, whether it's MMA or Judo or Kickboxing. In the street you don't know who you're going against and the variables are infinite. So I would say a ring fighter would hold is own in a street fight, but that doesn't mean just because you train in the ring you are going to be unbeatable on the street. I think there are styles of MA's that are better suited for the street and it all comes down to the type of training your getting from your dojo. I think the more direct the fighting style the better you'll do in a real fight, that's why ring fighters will do well in the street as well. It all comes down to why you study Martial Arts. I study Budo Taijutsu because it's fun and effective, not because I want to go around getting into street fights.

[ZR440]

Not entirely, TJS. But there might be some techniques from certain styles learn that would not be allowed in "a ring". They are used to kill or permanently injure your opponent in a rules-don't-apply type of streetfight.

[TJS]

yes there are techniques that can be very effective in a street altercation..the problem is alot of schools get so caught up in relyin on techniques they can practice against a resisting opponet that they are not going ot be able to use them in a real fight.

[Treebranch]

You're right TJS some schools do get to caught up in the so called dangerous techniques. Constantly studying techniques with the proper training methods will give a person the ability to fight freely without thinking. The last thing you want to do is try to fit a technique into a real situation, whether it be in the ring or the street. The idea is to train to the point where your natural reactions work for you, not against you. I find that many schools teach techniques that are not tested enough to possibly see if they are doing them right or if they can be improved in some way. I also think the techniques that can be tested should be tested against untrained fighters as well as trained fighters of different schools. The techniques in the end should be forgotten and the fighter should be able to improvise after a certain level of mastery of the techniques. Most fights don't give you any time to think, so you just have to respond accordingly.