America kills 4 more allies in friendly fire

[ramcalgary]

dear brer war is not 100 percent accurate what an excuse.. if a canadian pilot dropped a bomb on an american squad and killed for yanks when the pilot was told not to fire the american people would be outraged but because it was not americans who were killed the american attitude is oh well it happens ..it should not happen as often as it does when americans are involved

 

 

[Patrick]

Honestly, we make as many mistakes as anyone else. Our mistakes get magnified though, because we are the biggest. Its like playing baseball in New York - for those that know what that means.

 

I have many Canadian friends and know many Canadians as well and most of them have something negative to say about the U.S. Not positive why, because I'd hate to steriotype Canadians as being resentful, I mean, you guys have benefited so much for being bordered with us, its not even funny, but I guess that gets forgotten as well.

 

 

[Don Gwinn]

Now is not really the time to talk about how much Canadians owe Americans, is it?

 

I live about half an hour from Springfield, IL, where the 183rd Fighter Wing is based. In fact, dad was in it back in the 1970's. He was a mechanic on the F-4.

 

Anyway, it's really beginning to disturb me to hear the attitude around here. People are all saying "it's no big deal, accidents happen in war." As RamCalgary says, there's just no way these people would be saying this if four guys from the 183rd had been the victims.

 

Friendly fire and accidents happen. We all know this. But this was not an "accident" or a "mistake." I'm sick of hearing people who willfully commit crimes refer to their actions as "unfortunate mistakes." Gary Condit did not make mistakes! He cheated on his family and obstructed justice at the very least. There is a difference.

 

The initial report says that the pilots from the 183rd were flying over the Canadian training area. There is some confusion as to whether they were told the Canadians were holding an exercise, so it's POSSIBLE they thought the area had been overrun without anyone's knowledge, I guess.

 

They spotted flashes on the ground. They claim they thought these were AA fire, but they took no rounds and saw no tracers or missiles. As it turns out, the Canadians were only using rifles, so it should have been easy to see that this was not AA fire and no threat at their altitude. But up to this point, I can still almost see how it could be an accident. They panicked, etc. The guy who fired was a former Top Gun instructor, but who knows?

 

HOWEVER, when they radioed for permission to fire, it was denied. They then radioed again, saying, quote "I am going in in self-defense." By this time, THEY WERE OUT OF THE AREA and had to do a 180 to fly back to the area where they had "taken fire" and release one 500-lb. bomb, killing four of our allies in the process.

 

Now, if even half of that is true, it's pretty clear that we're dealing with cowboys here. This was not a simple mistake. They thought they knew better than anyone else and they killed 4 people. Not just people--4 comrades-in-arms.

 

 

[Zin-Ju]

but really though the US army may have the technology but they have a sh*t army.

 

the US makes all the technology but even bush knew the British army are the only people with the skills to use it

 

being realistic the british army may be smaller but our skills are far superior

 

 

[Northren Ogre]

Both militaries have released some of the findings in a highly censored report(no blame on censoring though). However, both reports have placed the blame for the attack squarely on the shoulders of the two pilots. The Canadians had followed all the proper prochedure in informing allied forces that they would be having a live fire excerise in an outlined training area. The American pilots were informed to climb above 10,000 ft and mark the target area and return to base. The pilots then enacted their "self defense" clause (without climbing to 10,000 ft which is considered a safe hight from ground fire), circled around and dropped a laser guided bomb on the Canadians. The pilot who did'nt drop the bomb was the higher ranking officer of the two and is being chastised for losing control of the situation and not keeping his jr. partner in line.

 

It's true that both pilots are decorated and high ranking, one was a major...forget the other. I don't belive the American military is at fault for this horrible accident, they instructed their pilots in the proper way. I am of the opinion that this occured due to a gung ho cowboy who did not want to go home without a story to tell. The pilot who dropped the bomb is the only bad guy here and in my humble opinion, belive that serious repercusions are in order.

[Don Gwinn]

Thanks, Zin Ju. I'll keep that in mind.

 

 

[ramcalgary]

patrick most canadians understand that we benifit from bordering the us that is not the question here

 

the point is an american pilot screwed up and friendly soldiers were killed.

 

all you must do is look at what the us proposed in the united nations. that american soldiers who serve on u.n. peace keeping missions be exempt from all war crime prosecution.

 

if that does not show you that the american military thinks it is above the law that the rest of the world follows

 

 

[Don Gwinn]

Actually, we consider ourselves above the horizon--meaning that we are the biggest target in the world. There are too many people worldwide who would love to fling our soldiers into prisons for nothing more than being Americans.

 

What people forget is that the U.S. stated long ago that we would sign onto a court that included the same protections for our citizens as they would have under our Constitution. The easy thing would have been to incorporate those protections for everyone, but no one was willing to do that.

 

We are aware of what most members of the U.N. would like to do with the U.S. if ever they got the chance.

 

 

[Don Gwinn]

Actually, we consider ourselves above the horizon--meaning that we are the biggest target in the world. There are too many people worldwide who would love to fling our soldiers into prisons for nothing more than being Americans.

 

What people forget is that the U.S. stated long ago that we would sign onto a court that included the same protections for our citizens as they would have under our Constitution. The easy thing would have been to incorporate those protections for everyone, but no one was willing to do that.

 

We are aware of what most members of the U.N. would like to do with the U.S. if ever they got the chance.

 

 

[ckdstudent]

There's something called the Geneva Convention, take a look at it sometime.

 

There is absolutely no reason any nation's military should be exempt from prosecution for war crimes under an international court.