2 year black belts?

[Aodhan]

Fortunately, time and training requirements for the black belt rank are not set by most of us, but rather people who have a much deeper understanding of their arts. I am a 3rd degree black belt, but i don't feel that I'm qualified to make such a determination or criticize another group for their requirements.

My organization's national board of review (all 6th degree and above masters) sets the standards, and I don't think it's my place to second guess them. If your art has a legitimate governing body with qualified masters setting the requirements, I say the that should be good enough. Who am I to say that's not good enough or not long enough?

Excellent point. Additionally, for most organizations, the times set are MINIMUMS. The minimum time in rank for ATA to move from beginner to BB is I believe arouind 18 months. Much the same as the ITF. Minimum time between blackbelt ranks is years x rank (1st to 2nd 1 year, 2nd to 3rd 2 years, etc). Nowhere does it say that someone WILL be promoted that fast. I know of several people in the ATA that took 3-4 years to get their 1st degree, and others that have spent 2-5 years (more in some cases) between some of the black belt ranks.

It's an individual determination. The standards are minimums, nothing says anyone has to promote to that schedule.

Aodhan

[bushido_man96]

That is a good point, Aodhan. I thought the ATA's system was very well put together, and the fact that you can earn the black belt in 18 months is not a bad thing. When you get to black belt, it is ok to still have some things to learn.

Kind of along the lines of this and the McDojo discussion, I sent my daughter to swim lessons this year. She is in level 4. Well, they had 8 days of lessons, and then they test, and if they don't pass, they have to repeat. Of course, they don't have to take more lessons if they don't want to. Now, we pay for this service, and if they fail after less than two weeks of training, they just say we have to do it again. They actually told us that not everyone passes the level on the first try. Now, if martial arts teachers came across with this attitude, I'll bet people would freak.

Don't know, but I thought it might be relevant. At least in the martial arts, if you don't feel ready to test, then you don't have to.

[DragonMike]

That is a good point, Aodhan. I thought the ATA's system was very well put together, and the fact that you can earn the black belt in 18 months is not a bad thing. When you get to black belt, it is ok to still have some things to learn.

Kind of along the lines of this and the McDojo discussion, I sent my daughter to swim lessons this year. She is in level 4. Well, they had 8 days of lessons, and then they test, and if they don't pass, they have to repeat. Of course, they don't have to take more lessons if they don't want to. Now, we pay for this service, and if they fail after less than two weeks of training, they just say we have to do it again. They actually told us that not everyone passes the level on the first try. Now, if martial arts teachers came across with this attitude, I'll bet people would freak.

Don't know, but I thought it might be relevant. At least in the martial arts, if you don't feel ready to test, then you don't have to.

Agreed. People have the right not to test if they don't want to.

Also, someone could achieve a black belt in two years, if they catch on qwuickly and begin with a good amount of athelticism, but I don't think it should be the norm.

[patusai]

There have been a number of highly respected master in one of the styles that I have studied in for a long time that reached BB in 18months practicing 8 hours a day 7 days a week. In addition, climbing well beyond that quite fast. It all depends on many different factors. It was told to us years ago that in Japan there are a great deal of Shodans walking around because of exactly what the grade means. Shodan is a level where you know enough to begin learning. I read a thread on KF a while back that the timeframe to BB is closer to a clock and not a calendar. (Now I may be misquoting but nobody is suggesting that it takes hours or days to get a BB). BB requires that you reach a level of understanding. I have known instructors who basically held back students (for a variety of reasons) who should have reached BB years earlier. Unfortunately, in one case one of those students eventually became a BB and beyond and forgot the frustration and how it felt and basically did the same thing to students. the basics of Karate is not the basics nerosurgery or quantium physics. If it means a geat deal of someone to train for a decade to reach shodan that's fine but the general population need not take that long. For that matter the general population does not all deserve a BB either. Just my thoughts

[pepto_bismol]

7 days a week, 4-7 hours a day.

Sure... 2 year black belt.

Style that is very basic... not to many forms, such as wing chun.

Sure... possibly 2 year black belt.

2 year old kid... sure, if the price is right.

the average school that goes like 2 days a week one hour a day... I can't imagine awarding a black belt. A black belt should idealy take a lifetime to earn.

[bushido_man96]

7 days a week, 4-7 hours a day.

Sure... 2 year black belt.

Style that is very basic... not to many forms, such as wing chun.

Sure... possibly 2 year black belt.

2 year old kid... sure, if the price is right.

the average school that goes like 2 days a week one hour a day... I can't imagine awarding a black belt. A black belt should idealy take a lifetime to earn.

I disagree with you here. If a black belt is "just the beginning," then why should it take a lifetime to attain? And if that was the case, then we wouldn't have dan rankings, either.

[Jiffy]

Okay, this has been done to death, but I'll respond quickly anyway.

It depends on what the individual instructor wants for a BB.

Karate took me 11/12 years to BB

Hapkido will take me 2.5

[Zorbasan]

i got my TKD BB in 5 years, but honestly i probably could have had it in 2 but didnt want/wasnt able to test for whatever reason.

time should not have any consideration on the rank that someone is able to acheive, it comes down to technique, ability and knowledge.

if the person meets the requirements to be a BB, what does it matter if he has trained for 2 months, 2years or 20 years.

[Yasutsune Makoto]

time should not have any consideration on the rank that someone is able to acheive, it comes down to technique, ability and knowledge.

if the person meets the requirements to be a BB, what does it matter if he has trained for 2 months, 2years or 20 years.

It matters because you need understanding. You may know everything that you need to know in a year, but to understand it completely and apply it with the correct spirit is the goal of a lifetime. Without the proper mentality and spirit behind the knowledge and ability there is nothing of substance. Just movements that look good (maybe).

Too many schools out there pass a student because they can go through the motions that are written down on the requirement sheet. Technical proficiency is important, but it's only the skin of the martial arts. Learning techniques is like reading the back of a book. Do you know everything because you read the excerpt?

[Zorbasan]

the understanding is another criteria of the black belt. again, why is it up to you (or anyone) to say "there is no way anyone can understand this at a black belt level is less than 2 years"

if the student can exhibit the understanding required to be a BB, then what does the time training have to do with it.

same works in reverse, you cant give someone who has been training for 10 years a black belt if he cant show the required elements to be one. so why should a person than can show everything required not be allowed to grade simply because he hasnt trained as long.