2 year black belts?

[Aodhan]

testing for black after only two years is something that very few people could do with full understanding of their art, but I am only one person with my opinion.

Congratulations on your accomplishment.

However, your last sentence seems a little bit off to me. If you have to have a full understanding of your art to test for black, then we would have very very few black belts.

A black belt is a BASIC understanding of the art. Once you get a black belt, you are ready to start learning nuances, shadings, subtle differences, etc. There is always more to learn, even if you are head of your art.

Aodhan

[Sohan]

I started TKD very young and I trained for a black belt for five years. Granted I was only 9years old when I recieved it I worked hard and earned it. My instructor had never had a child test for black and back then there was no such thing as a Jr. Black rank. She held me to the same standards as she did the adults and it took me two attempts to pass so I know she did not cut me any slack. Her reason for the no change was not anything physical because I was an awesome little girl. She would not promote me to black because she did not feel I understood what it ment to be a black belt. I was lacking the mental and spirtual aspect of Martial Arts. After I recieved the no-change I did a lot of reading, a Whole lot of praying, and I thought about it. Two weeks before testing I told my instructor that I wanted to try again for my black belt. She told me the decision was ultimately mine, but she said that the physical aspect was not a problem for me so If I thought I was ready mentally then go for it. When Ron Allman, 6th degree Master, asked me why I wanted a black belt at testing I replied to him that I did not neccessarliy want a Black belt that I just wanted to learn more. I went on to say that if they did not want to promote me to Black then that was fine, but please just let me learn something new something different. My instructior said that I finally understood something that no child should. Rank is just a color the true measure of a Martial Artist is knowledge. As it is all to overstated knowledge is power. It is my personal opinion that testing for black after only two years is something that very few people could do with full understanding of their art, but I am only one person with my opinion.

You sound like a very mature young woman. We need more like you in MA.

Respectfully,

Sohan

[bushido_man96]

very good point sohan...i too have encountered such blackbelts that aren's seasoned very well at all...ive sparred them and have beaten them as a brown belt who has been doing tae kwon do for 3 years at four days a week and a am in now way capable of passing a black belt test in my school or even in friends' schools.

Sparring is not necessarily the end all, be all of judgements. Just because someone cannot spar well, does not mean that they cannot defend themselves. There are some things that sparring won't show you, because of the rules involved. Point sparring may not demonstrate toughness, or the ability to take a shot. Even if it is not point sparring, you still may not get a good idea of what the person is capable of when his or her life is on the line, and all they are concerned with is survival.

[bushido_man96]

There are so many different cases we could look at. There is Heather Smyth, who took 5 years, along with some others. Heather Smyth has a good case, where her instructor held her out once. This is definetly the sign of a good instructor. Then, there are those who take 5 years because they don't advance as fast as some others. Then there are those who are extremly talented, and get there a little sooner, like the two year BB's; which I am (2-2.5 years). I don't claim that I am super sharp, or super talented, but I did learn something at each rank that I had. Even as a black belt, I am still learning.

Now, why don't we extend this discussion beyond the rank of 1st degree? In my style, I must wait 1.5 years before I can test for 2nd degree, and then 2.5 years after that to test for 3rd degree. Now, does a 1st dan learn enough in 1.5 years to gain the knowledge of a 2nd dan? Even as 2nd dan, working toward 3rd dan, I am still learning things about myself that need improvement. So, when am I going to be ready?

I guess what I am getting at is this: How do you know when? Why is 5 years so much better than 2? Wouldn't 8 years be better than 5? Honestly, I think it depends on the person and their ability. Just because a person gets a BB in 2 years, does not mean that they are not comprable to a student who gets one in 5 years.

[tkdman102088]

excellent explanation heather smyth...that is a mighty accomplishment you attained. and you have a true understanding of the martial arts values and ways...in no way could you have accomplished that in 2 years as a child or an adult.

[Heather Smyth]

testing for black after only two years is something that very few people could do with full understanding of their art, but I am only one person with my opinion.

Congratulations on your accomplishment.

However, your last sentence seems a little bit off to me. If you have to have a full understanding of your art to test for black, then we would have very very few black belts.

A black belt is a BASIC understanding of the art. Once you get a black belt, you are ready to start learning nuances, shadings, subtle differences, etc. There is always more to learn, even if you are head of your art.

Aodhan

Full understanding of your art was probally not the best choice of words and I appreciate you pointing that out to me. I should have said that very few people would be completly ready to test for black belt after only two years because they lack the understanding of the imporntance of mental apprectation, responsibility, and humility that comes with wearing a black belt.

Also I firmly agree with you on the fact that you only begin to learn after you become a black belt. I learned more in the first two years as a BB as I had in the past five yrs. combined.

Heather

[aigaios]

I also agree... I just reached Cho Dan last year, and since then, I've learned more than I did in my entire 9 years of training. I'm not sure why, but it probably has to do with the difference in mindset.

[Ottman]

I think we're starting to get into what it really takes to be a black belt in the last couple pages of this thread. IMHO, you can take things like age, amount of training (whether it is a lot or a little), athletic ability, etc. and throw them out the window. As long as you know the basics, which from a technical standpoint, don't have to take very long to learn, it's then all about maturity and attitude. You can be the most skilled and most athletic person, with years and years of training under your belt (whichever belt that may be), but still not have the attitude and spirit it takes to be a black belt. Conversely, there are many people who have this attitude and spirit regardless of whether they even train in MA or not. These types of people need only take the time to learn the basic physical skills of the art, and they are ready for a BB. This could potentially take weeks if you are a fast learner, and already have a good athletic base, with lots of body intelligence. So why are we so concerned with time here? Time is man made, and it shouldn't concern us in the least when determining who is a good MAist and who isn't.

[bushido_man96]

I think we're starting to get into what it really takes to be a black belt in the last couple pages of this thread. IMHO, you can take things like age, amount of training (whether it is a lot or a little), athletic ability, etc. and throw them out the window. As long as you know the basics, which from a technical standpoint, don't have to take very long to learn, it's then all about maturity and attitude. You can be the most skilled and most athletic person, with years and years of training under your belt (whichever belt that may be), but still not have the attitude and spirit it takes to be a black belt. Conversely, there are many people who have this attitude and spirit regardless of whether they even train in MA or not. These types of people need only take the time to learn the basic physical skills of the art, and they are ready for a BB. This could potentially take weeks if you are a fast learner, and already have a good athletic base, with lots of body intelligence. So why are we so concerned with time here? Time is man made, and it shouldn't concern us in the least when determining who is a good MAist and who isn't.

This is an awesome point. You hit the nail right on the head!

[aigaios]

Indeed he did.