Iron Palm And Selective Breaking

[MizuRyu]

I've decided to take up an iron palm regiment to help strengthen my hands and improve my breaking skills. When I was talking to my friend's father about it, he said that with proper skill one could selectively break any single brick in a stack with no spacers flush to the floor. Has anyone ever seen this?

[elbows_and_knees]

selective breaking is one of those parlor tricks. I've seen demos of it though. All iron palm *supposedly* REALLY does is

1. condition the hand to hitting hard surfaces

2. get the tendons used to impact of hitting hard things.

The old guys will tell you that it teaches you to use tendon strength and to punch with that as opposed to your muscles, but as we know, that is not possible.

That said, DO NOT do it on your own - forget what your friends told you. Iron palm training needs to be done under the supervision of a qualified instructor. If your WC sifu is not skilled in it, then I wouldn't worry about it, unless you train another style.

[MizuRyu]

My friend's father spent 12 years in China studying Mantis, Tai Chi, and Wing Chun, and in that time did iron palm training. He gave me this regiment:

A canvas bag filled with smooth rocks, with canvas draped over the top, on top of a hard surface like a cinder block. Slap it 'without force' with the flat side of your palm 30 times, shake, then 20, then do the same for the back of the hand, the palm heel, and knife hand. And to rub my hands with dit da jow before and after.

He communicated that it was safe to do as long as I had the proper knowledge and to do it without force... let gravity and momentum do the work, and that if I sustained any injury, to stop until it healed, then start again lightly and work my way up. I'm supposed to go over there this Sunday so he can demonstrate for me.

[elbows_and_knees]

sounds good. I'm shocked he told you rocks instead of beans though... you start light and work up.

[Traditional-Fist]

My friend's father spent 12 years in China studying Mantis, Tai Chi, and Wing Chun, and in that time did iron palm training. He gave me this regiment:

A canvas bag filled with smooth rocks, with canvas draped over the top, on top of a hard surface like a cinder block. Slap it 'without force' with the flat side of your palm 30 times, shake, then 20, then do the same for the back of the hand, the palm heel, and knife hand. And to rub my hands with dit da jow before and after.

He communicated that it was safe to do as long as I had the proper knowledge and to do it without force... let gravity and momentum do the work, and that if I sustained any injury, to stop until it healed, then start again lightly and work my way up. I'm supposed to go over there this Sunday so he can demonstrate for me.

You haven't mentioned anything about the correct breathing. This aspect is an essential part of iron palm training. Without the correct breathing one will only end up with hard hands and not much else. Maybe your friend will tell you you all about it on Sunday when he can demonstrate it to you in person.

Good luck with your training and be patient.

[Traditional-Fist]

Selective breaking is sometimes referred to as "Cotton Palm". It is real. My Sifu can do it. Even some karate masters such as the famous Kanazawa of Shotokan, who has studied Chinese arts such as Tai chi, is reputed to have such skills. I would hesitate to refer to men such as him as parlour magicians.

Tendon training is an important part of both "hard" and "soft" kung fu styles. Both tendon and muscle strengh are used in punching. There are also other internal elements at play in a kung fu punch as opposed to, lets say a boxing punch.

Mizu Ryu,

You can train iron palm on your own as long as you have been taught the basics. As you probably know, you will need further instruction/supervision as you upgrade your training.

[dtstiachi]

I have a question.

Does the palm "weaken" after successive breakings and at some point will it return to normal?

Does one have to keep the "training" up in order to keep the palm strong?

what (if any) type of damage is done to the palm over time?

Thanks for your input.

[KF Dude]

-Does the palm "weaken" after successive breakings and at some point will it return to normal?

-Does one have to keep the "training" up in order to keep the palm strong?

-What (if any) type of damage is done to the palm over time?

Anything done to excess will damage the hand. IP primary use is on a human body. I had a period of over zealous training & my hands did hurt/ache when I slept - lesson learned.

Internal IP training never stops & becomes the focus. While external conditioning gets scaled back just for maintenance.

Good instruction with proper execution will harden the hands without injury. Sifu & SiGung have many more years than myself & have nothing wrong with them.

One other thing to consider, Iron Palm is just a really hard palm strike. If you don't have any trained fighting ability it's effectiveness is almost useless.

[elbows_and_knees]

Tendon training is an important part of both "hard" and "soft" kung fu styles. Both tendon and muscle strengh are used in punching. There are also other internal elements at play in a kung fu punch as opposed to, lets say a boxing punch.

internal elements such as?

[Traditional-Fist]

internal elements such as?

Such as the Chi element.