Submissions on the street

[jedimc]

Yes they can be but they can be very small and direct, this is taught (sometimes) so there is minimal time used to throw or pin an opponent, in jiyu waza this can very useful as no one wants to be caught by the other opponents doing a large and slow technique.

However it is often demonstrated, graded and taught large and graceful and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Jersey Devil]

Aikido is thought to be effective against multiple opponents because its a great martial art to use when putting on demonstrations.

Most throws are derived from wristlocks, and they're quickly attained when your partner is going according to a choreographed sequence of moves. As a result, you can "throw" someone quicker with a flick of your wrist than a Judoka can (since he'll be using his hips and his legs).

Any and all multiple opponent aikido demonstrations I've seen can be decieving to those who have never seen grappling/fighting. All you really need to do though is just watch ONE of the attackers through the demo and see how much time he waits between attacks.

Its looks cool and fluid, but often that which looks good is not as applicable in a fight.

[jedimc]

All Aikido Techniques I know use the power from the hips and legs. But im not an expert

[ps1]

I said:

That said...if I felt it necessary to "mangle" the limb...so be it. Chances are, however, after breaking one limb, their violent reaction would lead to another opening. If the attacker kept coming he would likely end up with more than one broken limb. Probably made to pass out from a choke or strangle.

Of course...this only goes for the "life and death" situations. Not for drunk Uncle Eddie at the wedding reception:)

elbows and knees said:

wow... that seems completely backward to me. you break one limb, he keeps coming, THEN you choke him out?

choke him out from the beginning. He's out long enough to get away, and you didn't have to break anything. Also, choking him unconscious is most likely not considered using lethal force, so it would stand up in court. Consequently, you don't have to only use it in life or death situations. I choke people nightly at work. It's my restraint of choice.

Uhhh...my post wasn't meant to be a textbook answer with steps 1, 2, 3 and so on. But the original question was regarding someone giving up or busting the limb. So that's where I started. Clearly if you have the opportunity to make someone go nighty night you do it. But they don't always give that option. Especially when you don't have the benifit of other bouncers around to help. Number 1 rule of jiujitsu is not to force anything and take what the opponent gives you.

Further...anytime you attack the neck of an opponent it is seen in the eyes of the court as more deadly than attacking a limb. So your theory of the court room doesn't really apply. This is why police really can't strangle someone from the onset of a situation. I understand where you're going with this in that the ultimate result is no injury whatsoever, but the wrong twist or a sudden jerk could cause permenant damage or even death.