Question about Martial Arts with a lot of joint locks?

[jaymac]

I do know that most prisons/jails provide classes in regards to how and when you can apply holds/ grabs / etc... My brother in law works in a prison and was just talking about this. There are certain things you can do and not do. Even with Martial Art experience, if you use your knowledge to control a situation and the prisoner is injured, you can get into trouble. You wouldn't think that is fair because he is a prisoner, but I guess there are steps you take and it depends on when you can escalate your defense against an attack. Anyways, if you get the job, (good luck, I hope you do), they will provide you with all that information.

[tke010]

You should use whatever technique that presents itself in a fight. Keep an open mind.

If your opponent leaves his arm out with fingers open, and finger Chin-na looks like it can easily be applied, go for it... if arm bar appears, take it...

My favorite move: Chin-na grabs (tricep, bicep, skin on the inside of the knee, quads,...) they really hurt, they take fight out of most people, after 5 minutes - pain is gone with no real injuries.

Don't wait for a lock or a hold, you'll get beat up....

Go with the flow protecting yourself.

After a few strikes, locks and holds make themselves available.

But be careful to protect yourself from locks and holds as well.

One of my best friends used to be a juvenile corrections officer. He could only use locks and holds they trained him on. The kids (big as he is too) usually hit him once or twice before he took them down. I don't know if i could be nice after getting punched in the face .... Maybe, if a paycheck was involved...

good luck with the job!

[elbows_and_knees]

Hey: elbows_and_knees It looks like we meet again... lol

You do make a great point, holds can be more effective to control and move your opponent around. One thing to remember about joint locking, is everyone feels them different. It is just the way our nerv-systems are. I have seen too many times in fights that someone locks up a wrist to submit their attacker, and the attacker just smiles and knocks the crap out of them. At times, the attacker has to go and get his wrist x-rayed a few days later because the guy broke his wrist. Other times, they mock the MA world for allowing students to use such a stupid hold. From my experiences: far too often joint locks are for only the most experienced of artist, and even than they are used with caustion

However: I do enjoy learning them and training with them. just for the pleasure of doing them, but in a fight I am using striking and grappling.

I completely agree.

[elbows_and_knees]

try holds rather than locks, they are easier to apply and can make it easier to move your advesary around quickly. I use the rear naked choke and both the full and half nelson all the time, as well as some other holds.

Just Out of curiosity,Have you ever found a hold didn't work for you at a certain time in real life? What did you then do?

Actually, no - But I only use a handful. I have noticed that come work better at other times than others, though. For example it's hard to apply a rear naked choke and get a person to walk forward - it's easier to pull them backward.

[elbows_and_knees]

I am hoping to get a job as a jailor here in a few weeks (Interview this Tuesday). For legal reasons, I am not going to be able to attack resisting inmates with my fists. I am going to have to brush up on my joint locking skills.

try holds rather than locks, they are easier to apply and can make it easier to move your advesary around quickly. I use the rear naked choke and both the full and half nelson all the time, as well as some other holds.

elbows_and_knees, you rang a bell for me, there was something else I was thinking about when I put up this joint lock post. I forgot about holds. I do feel I can probably apply then better than joint locks. What styles would I take to learn these?

Thanks everyone, I kind of had this feeling about joint locks from my experiences, but wanted to hear about what more experienced people thought of it.

wrestling, bjj and judo. most of them come from wrestling, as positioning and control is their forte.

[elbows_and_knees]

I do know that most prisons/jails provide classes in regards to how and when you can apply holds/ grabs / etc... My brother in law works in a prison and was just talking about this. There are certain things you can do and not do. Even with Martial Art experience, if you use your knowledge to control a situation and the prisoner is injured, you can get into trouble. You wouldn't think that is fair because he is a prisoner, but I guess there are steps you take and it depends on when you can escalate your defense against an attack. Anyways, if you get the job, (good luck, I hope you do), they will provide you with all that information.

even prisoners have rights. And in this day and age, EVERYONE loves to sue somebody. There are levels of escalation though that kind of dictate what you can use and when. I may do an article or thread about it later.

[ShoreiSmurf]

Don't wait for a lock or a hold, you'll get beat up....

Go with the flow protecting yourself.

After a few strikes, locks and holds make themselves available.

But be careful to protect yourself from locks and holds as well.

tke010: there is wisdom in these words, but I do not know if I fully agree that waiting for any move will get you beat up After all this is why we as martial arts learn to block, duck, perry, and avoid attacks, is it not? To wait our opening to counter attack. And as you said: to attack with whatever makes itself apperant during the fight.

Personally: I feel holds are a better way to go because unlike locks, you do not need to be as percise with the set up. I'm not saying locks do not have their place, and they are some of my more favorite moves. Just in my real life experiences, the holds are easier and quicker to set up. And like with elbow_and_knees, I never have found a time when a hold has not worked for me. As where I have seen locks fail, as I have already stated in this thread.

[bushido_man96]

Thanks for the info, all. I have some books on BJJ and one on small circle jujutsu; I think I shall start reviewing them.

[danbong]

The small circle videos are way better than the book.

[tke010]

tke010: there is wisdom in these words, but I do not know if I fully agree that waiting for any move will get you beat up After all this is why we as martial arts learn to block, duck, perry, and avoid attacks, is it not? To wait our opening to counter attack. And as you said: to attack with whatever makes itself apperant during the fight.

Personally: I feel holds are a better way to go because unlike locks, you do not need to be as percise with the set up. I'm not saying locks do not have their place, and they are some of my more favorite moves. Just in my real life experiences, the holds are easier and quicker to set up. And like with elbow_and_knees, I never have found a time when a hold has not worked for me. As where I have seen locks fail, as I have already stated in this thread.

ShoreiSmurf,

You above statement is very true. (Arm bars are one of my favorites)

I forgot to mention that in my origianl post. thanks for identifying that.

Just some additional info for the one who started this post:

(Note: fighting should be a last resort, always).

You cannot block everything that comes at you while waiting for a hold to present itself - you eventually get hit.

If you are not aware of your surroundings (fence,building, cliff, water,...), you eventually run out of space to backup\avoid stikes.

You will eventually need to return fire.

Note:There are no winners in a fight. Even if you walk away unhurt (thats why I train), thats great. But then ther is a waiting game to see if you get arrested and/or get sued. Sometimes, this can't be avoided - but we as martial artist should be very aware of the consequences of our actions.

It always best to think of these things prior to your actions (what will you say in front of the judge?, will this prevent you from prison time? if not, walk away!)