I have a couple of questions

[Tomcat]

I very much agree with you in moderation of all things. Nowadays when I practice it is to get back into shape. I find working out in the class far more interesting mentally than running on a treadmill at a regular gym.

I have an uncle who has yet to learn moderation (or perhaps he is just going through a mid-life crisis, but it would be rude to speculate). For the past 3 years he has been waking up at 4am to jog, lift weights, etc. he runs in the Chicago Marathon every year now. I just don't understand WHY he is so fanatical about exercising now.

I think it's great that he has found something positive to do especially with the added health benefits! I think it's great whenever someone finds a positve activity they enjoy. But the bragging I can't stand. Just like you said when people can grag that "I'm a black belt!", my uncle brags about working out 3 hours a day. My response to him was "When was the last time you picked up a book?"

Very few people know that I love martial arts. Maybe it is just because I really hate braggarts that I would hate to become one. In my opinion, the people who brag about being so great at martial arts, just aren't. Those who ARE really good, just simply practice because they enjoy it and don't care what others think.

[TSD Y049]

It's really hard for me to imagine anyone getting a black belt in 2-3 years and really appreciating the value of receiving it or what it really means.

Sohan,

I don't mean to be rude but I achived Cho Dan in 2 years and I definatly apprectiate the value of reciving it and what it really means. One year after my Cho Dan test (which would be now) I am preparing for my Ee Dan test. I can guarntee you that I appreciate and understand it more than some people who trained for it for 4+ years. If have anything else to say about that you can PM me that way we don't make a scene in front of the others, .

Aside from that thanks for posting everyone, including Sohan, you have helped give me ideas, thanks agian.

[bushido_man96]

My instructor tries to get the idea across to the students that 1st dan is not the only goal, and that if they quit after they achieve it, then they can't really go around saying that they are black belts; they could say that they were black belts.

[aefibird]

Also, one of the reasons that people quit after getting 1st dan is also to do with the fact that too often schools do not have dedicated post-1st Dan programmes. Too often classes are geared towards getting the colourded belts their blackbelt and the existing blackbelts just tend to fall in with that. A dedicated syllabus and class time for blackbelts might help some to stay instead of quitting.

Plus, some quit because the gap between gradings becomes much greater between 1st and 2nd dan than it is between coloured belts, Many students get used to grading once every 3 months or so, and can't handle the fact that they will have to be a 1st dan for a minimum of a year or more. This can be a big problem with children, who like the "goal-and-reward" system of the coloured belts, especially as 3 months isn't too long to wait for the next visible sign of advancement.

[tkdman102088]

i think you should continue to train because of your lack of training, in my opinion 2 years is no where near long enough to deserve a black belt. in no way do i mean to insult you or your school but i am a brown belt and ive been doing tae kwon do for three years and i am in no way good enough to pass a black belt test or even compete with my black belt friends. also if you want to avoid physical situations: 1)walk tall, 2)look proud, 3)keep a cool head, 4)if you never raise your voice when in a situation you come off as intimidating, 5)often in self defense situations i.e. someone is choking you or grabbing your shirt, often enough just taking a step forward or removing the persons hand is enough to scare them because its not what their expecting. so they will give up...usually, 6)try and saty out of places where a physical situation can occur.

[Sohan]

It's really hard for me to imagine anyone getting a black belt in 2-3 years and really appreciating the value of receiving it or what it really means.

Sohan,

I don't mean to be rude but I achived Cho Dan in 2 years and I definatly apprectiate the value of reciving it and what it really means. One year after my Cho Dan test (which would be now) I am preparing for my Ee Dan test. I can guarntee you that I appreciate and understand it more than some people who trained for it for 4+ years. If have anything else to say about that you can PM me that way we don't make a scene in front of the others, .

Aside from that thanks for posting everyone, including Sohan, you have helped give me ideas, thanks agian.

I don't think you're rude at all. Rather I understand exactly what you are saying. But it seems to me that my first 2 years of Okinawan karate went by so quickly it is difficult to imagine myself as being a blackbelt at that time--we typically take a minimum 5 years to reach Shodan with 8-9 not unheard of.

It's not to diminish your accomplishments at all, but it would be to me like getting a college degree in 2 years--can one possibly absorb the material necessary to be a proficient martial artist in that time? Of course, our systems are quite different, and our quantity of material is likely very different. We technically study two systems plus Hung Gar Gung Fu, and we have among other requirements more than 30 traditional kata to perform, which takes substantial time.

I do wish you the best of success in your next Dan testing. You are understandably proud of your achievement, and I'm sure you will represent your belt well.

Respectfully,

Sohan

[tkdman102088]

if any one would like to continue this discussion about the time required to recieve first dan i have posted a new discussion about this.

also--if the original poster of this forum topic sees this i would like you to comment on my topic as well...and best wishes on your next dan test...my comments were not meant to attack you or your rank. i respect you and your rank.

[bushido_man96]

Also, one of the reasons that people quit after getting 1st dan is also to do with the fact that too often schools do not have dedicated post-1st Dan programmes. Too often classes are geared towards getting the colourded belts their blackbelt and the existing blackbelts just tend to fall in with that. A dedicated syllabus and class time for blackbelts might help some to stay instead of quitting.

Plus, some quit because the gap between gradings becomes much greater between 1st and 2nd dan than it is between coloured belts, Many students get used to grading once every 3 months or so, and can't handle the fact that they will have to be a 1st dan for a minimum of a year or more. This can be a big problem with children, who like the "goal-and-reward" system of the coloured belts, especially as 3 months isn't too long to wait for the next visible sign of advancement.

This is a very good point that you make. Black belts need more in order to keep them interested. Our traditional classes are always the same thing, and even our kicking classes are open to all students, and it is always everyone working on the same thing. They are still good workouts, but I need a little more.

[IcemanSK]

Also, one of the reasons that people quit after getting 1st dan is also to do with the fact that too often schools do not have dedicated post-1st Dan programmes. Too often classes are geared towards getting the colourded belts their blackbelt and the existing blackbelts just tend to fall in with that. A dedicated syllabus and class time for blackbelts might help some to stay instead of quitting.

Plus, some quit because the gap between gradings becomes much greater between 1st and 2nd dan than it is between coloured belts, Many students get used to grading once every 3 months or so, and can't handle the fact that they will have to be a 1st dan for a minimum of a year or more. This can be a big problem with children, who like the "goal-and-reward" system of the coloured belts, especially as 3 months isn't too long to wait for the next visible sign of advancement.

This is a very good point that you make. Black belts need more in order to keep them interested. Our traditional classes are always the same thing, and even our kicking classes are open to all students, and it is always everyone working on the same thing. They are still good workouts, but I need a little more.

I agree with both of you that: 1) A lot of schools/instructors have no program for testing behind 1st Dan. 2) And the "goal & reward system is an issue. (Although I don't think children are the only ones who struggle with it.

Some schools continue a "reward" system after 1st Dan with stripes etc, also. My favorite is the "Master Club" patches. Let's just say, I'm not in favor of these ideas. But I do think there needs to be a plan for testing beyond 1st Dan. But if there isn't the idea of advancement, a student will probably go elsewhere. Its the "the grass is greener syndrome."

I was very excited to "learn more" when I received my 1st Dan in 1985. My instructor moved away the following year. I changed schools & received my 2nd Dan in 1988. I was lied to & missed out on really growing in my MA experience. I changed arts in order to do this. I'm back doing TKD fulltime & finally have a system in which I have opportunity to learn more & advance in rank.

[Aodhan]

That's one of the biggest things.

People don't naturally have great goal setting abilities. All the time they are training, we tell them "Soon you'll be a black belt!" "6 more months to your BB!" and things of that nature.

That is self limiting, and thus many people get to black belt and say "Well, that's accomplished. Now what?", and don't really get an answer so they drift away.

About 1/2 to 3/4 way to the BB, you should start altering your talks in classes to start emphasizing the "life after 1st degree", and altering their goals.

Especially with our youngers, we talk about short term, mid term and long term goals, and how to set/adjust them as time goes by. If you instill the thought early, you won't lose as many when they get to 1st degree.

Aodhan