Belts

[Holland]

Giving out rank to kids that do not deserve it is no worse than giving it to the adults that don't... I mean, in my style we have a scenario where one of our 10th dans (yes, sadly we have quite a few) did a death bed promotion of one of his 8th dans to 10th degree at the age of like 46...that guy has then gone on to promote several people to 9th dan since then. One person he promoted from 8th to 9th after about a year and a half.

Its sad, but the integrity of promotion is only what each school makes it to be. In my school getting a black belt means something and I do my best to never cheapen that. We have time requirements for each rank that I will not budge on regardless of how good a student can perform physically.

On the issue of age though, I do it like this. Personally i will not even start training a child until they are 8 years old. I used to start them at six, but I have since raised that age. I train 8-13 year olds together. At 13 my kids can start going to the adult class as well...by 14 if they are coming to the kids class, it is to assist in instruction, not to be a student.

Our age for sho-dan is 15. I do not budge on this. At 11, if a child basically meets sho-dan requirements I will test them for jr. black belt (which has a white stripe in it) but they will not be eligible for a full black belt until they are 15...which in many cases means a child will be at, or near, their adult size when they test.

[powerof0ne]

I had a 3 year old student once...what a headache tha was. It was the school owner's(he wasn't a MA instructor) daughter and after one or two classes he could see that his daughter was too young.

In most schools I have trained in you have to be at least 16 to receive your shodan. I trained at one school for about a year that the head instructor who was only a shodan promoted a 12 y/o to shodan. I told him that a shodan can't promote someone to shodan. He then made arrangements to test for his Nidan under my primary instructor. My primary instructor had him spar me bare knuckle and he did horrible so he didn't pass his Nidan test..I'm not sure if he ever retested and passed or what happened.

[patusai]

Better check an adult advance class. If the adults look as bad, it'd probably be best to find another school. All staying in a bad school will do is build bad habits. That being said, sometimes a school will have two tiers of belts, a child level and an adult level.

Very good idea

[jaymac]

Holland, I think giving a junior rank with a different belt is a perfect solution. It at least gives a student who has trained for a long time a feeling of achievement, but with another goal in mind. It will keep them interested and hopefully they will want to continue to achieve high standards and improve to an adult rank. In our school, under 16 years old are considered junior black belts, but wear the same black belt as adult students, and I wish we recognized them as they are recognized in your school.

[CFletch]

3/4ths of the members at my dojo are 10 and younger........Just watching them gets on my nerves

[Fish]

The structure of classes at my dojo is such that I regularly train with kids. Some of them (especially the over 12s) are really good, very mature for their ages. The younger kids might pick up individual techniques quicker because they are quite flexible, but (not surprisingly, given their age) they are immature and lack discipline and concentration. Whether a 10 year old could deserve a black belt, I can't say, but I doubt most of them would have anything like the self discipline necessary.

[Darkangel]

I guess I should have stated that my son's are in the kid's class and I take the adult class afterwards.

[patusai]

I've always believed that you can gauge the quality of an instructor by his/her students. Even though we should judge children less strictly than adults, let that tell you what you need to know.

Respectfully,

Sohan

Very good. The student's abilities with regards to form are a reflection of the instructor.

As for the kids...things are different now adays.

[Oracle]

I know of kids 8-10 years old that are as technically proficient as any adult. I agree this is not typical, but they do exist.

If a junior can pass the same test as the adult, they deserve the belt regardless. It's up to the instructor to set the proper standards at the very beginning.

The reason most kids do not reach a higher level is because of the pressure put on instructors by the parents to be politically correct.

[Takeda Shingen]

Hi Dark Angel:

Look at this earlier poll about the age one should/could become a black belt..interesting results.

In the dojos, I have been associated with, youth (under 18 ) are not permitted to out-rank/line up ahead of adults. Meaning an adult white belt "beginner" has many "life experiences" that are recognized as priority to ranks of youth.

http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=23174&start=50

Osu.

TS