"Conditioning" bones and skin

[ebff]

This is a very interesting topic! When I was training wing chun the sifu's opinion was that you were a wimp if you complained about bruises and they were normal. Result: I spent a year with the bottom half of my arms continuously deep black, and they bled a couple of times too (it never got better, and my practising with my brother every day didn't help either). I thought it was normal. He also advised punching a wall 200 times a day for fist conditioning because "in a fight, you pick up an asktray, I prefer to use my fist because it's tougher than the ashtray". A doctor I know told me that this usually results in you developing micro-fractures in the knuckles so perhaps not the best thing to do...

He apparently trained in a shaolin temple which might explain that approach but still...

[elbows_and_knees]

nah, the shaolin temples today are mainly for show - they are wushu, not true shaolin. That said though, they do train very hard. Like I said, bruises are a bad thing. This is what I was taught while training kung fu. While sparring, sure bruises happen - suck it up. but to condition until the point where you bruise is like lifting weights and overtraining - it's counter productive and unhealthy in the long run. Have you heard of pan qing fu? look him up. Then look at his fist. That is the result of him punching boulders and various other things daily.

[elbows_and_knees]

Funny- I just answered this on a mailing list. THis response was regarding shin conditioning, but it also applies to conditioning other areas (forearms for example). This will also answer your question on bruising.

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Okee doke,

Can the shins be trained w/o damage- yes

Does it actually help- yes

Before going into methods, I'll explain the physiology behind this. This

comes from a series of discussions with an M.D. that specialized in

neuro muscular disorders. This person taught the physiology / anatomy class I took at the Pacific College of Oriental Medicine. So I'm just passing on what I was told.

Lets look at the reason conditioning reduces bruising first. The blood

vessels are made out of material similar to connective tissue and will

respond to stress in a similar manner. According to her, the capillary

and vessel walls will gain density and maybe even some outer wall

thickness, making it much harder for them to rupture on impact.. This

adaptation occurs without sacrificing any capability of oxygen

/nutrient/waste exchange in the circulatory system. However, the

conditioning must be done correctly or you can create problems. Correct

conditioning is gradual conditioning without causing any bruising.

Bruising signifies ruptured walls which means the vessels have to be

REPAIRED rather than adapted. So microscopic scar tissue is formed.

Lesson here- accidental bruising during training is not an issue as the

overall effect is very small. However, continuously conditioning by

causing bruising is counterproductive and basically . . . . stupid.

This is why the conditioning should be gradual.

Second the "sheath" around the muscle tissue becomes stronger too. You

must maintain your stretching of the areas you condition. Denser tissue

takes more work to improve or recover flexibility than it does to maintain.

Third, the nerve receptors that send the pain signal recede from the

surface of the skin causing you to be less sensitive to pain on impact.

She said there are specific receptors for pain and you can be desensitized to pain w/o other tactile sensory loss (Heat, cold, pleasure, texture, etc). Personal experience seems to agree with her statement.

Fourth, bone density increases due to impact stress. Many studies have

proven this to be true including such activities as running a

jackhammer, punching a heavy bag, chopping wood- you get the idea.

On to conditioning, just keep in mind it's best when done GRADUALLY.

Another precaution- conditioning must be done with the knee flexed!!!!!!

This cannot be emphasized enough. It doesn't have to be bent much, just

never do this with a straight leg.

Stage one- use a padded object. A very basic way is to make a fist and

use the bottom of the fist (end with the little finger). Pound up and

down your shins on both the outside and inside.You can use a dowel like

Brian, but wrap something around it at the beginning level.

Stage two- use something with less padding

Progressively increase the hardness of the object. One intermediate

object is a piece of smaller PVC pipe that will flex.

If bruising occurs, stop conditioning the area and put a good jow on it.

A good commercial one is Zheng Gu Shui. Restart a couple of days AFTER the bruising is completely gone, and back off from where you were.

Remember- don't rush it!

I've seen 60 and 70 year old Goju practitioners that have done this all

their lives with no adverse results, but they were patient and gradually

built up their conditioning. None of them did the Tak Kubota things of

hitting their shins with a hammer or punching the head of sledge hammers hanging from a pivot. They stuck with less extreme methods- and buddeeeee you NEVER wanted to cross shins with these old farts (said in a respectful manner, associated with painful memories)

Your instructor is right on one aspect, the conditioning only stays

with you as long as you keep doing it. This is just a natural

physiological response, and no different than what happens to your

physical conditioning when you quit lifting weights or running.

Basically- use it or lose it.

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Hope this helps

good post.

[jaymac]

A couple more tips. Many times after training, people are sore and tend to take ibuprofen. This pain medication is also a blood thinner. It will increase your chances of bruising. Also, extra strenght exedrin contains aspirin - also causing increased chances of bruising. I have trained for years. I bruise all the time, not because I do not train properly, because I have a freaking headache all the time and take those medications. Anyways, keep training. Have fun, and bruise a little. It is more fun to say I got that bruise training in MA, than it is to say, "i fell"

[Spirit At Choice]

people are sore and tend to take ibuprofen. This pain medication is also a blood thinner. It will increase your chances of bruising.

I knew that, but I didn't really make the connection. I am overweight, heading out of my thirties, and unfit, so I just pop the Advil as I'm heading out to the training floor, because I *know* I'll need it. Maybe I'll switch to Tylenol. Is Tylenol an anti-inflammatory too? Time to hit Google!

[jaymac]

No Tylenol is not an NSAID (non steroidal anti inflammatory). It is also not as good of a pain reliever as an NSAID (motrin, advil, aleve). Are the bruises so bad that you are really concerned? You may want to see a doctor if it has gotten out of hand. There could be other things going on.

[Spirit At Choice]

jaymac, the bruises are not so bad. I am not concerned about medical problems. Arnica works like a dream to prevent and diminish bruises.

I'm not particularly vain, but with warm weather heading in I was starting to think about more open clothes, and I always have at least three bruises going on my arms, plus I often get bruises around my collar bone and upper chest from getting grabbed and pushed during grappling.

They might look, erm, suspicious to people who don't know my hobby. And no one would ever believe I do karate because I am so unfit and overweight. (Lost 50 lbs, so far though-- 50 more to go!)

So, it really was a rather idle inquiry. I'm delighted it became such a serious and interesting topic.

[marie curie]

I asked on a Medical Professionals board I post on, and this is the message that I got

am a hand therapist. Usually after a metacarpal fracture, a bone callous or "lump" develops that can be seen under the skin. The skin on the dorsum of the hand is thin and as we age there is less fat under the skin in that area (that's why old people look vein-y on top of their hands)

These fractures usually do not heal well and require pins and plates and are a total pain in the azz!

It's true that weight bearing exercise MAINTAIN bone density. Just look at an x-ray of anyone who's been immobilized in cast for a long period of time....and you will see de-mineralization of bone.

HOWEVER: the bones of the hand were never meant for weight bearing or high impact...the hand is for precision and fine motor activities and should NOT be slammed around! Strike out with a stick or weapon or lower extremity....don't hit hard with a hand/fist if you can help it.

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I'll keep you posted on what others have said too.

[jaymac]

At 50 years old, I would be so proud of myself for doing such an awesome thing like MA. I would be sporting those bruises with a smile and when anyone asked, I would tell them, I have been training in MA

[Sohan]

What a good post, swdw. Very well put.

Respectfully,

Sohan