"Conditioning" bones and skin

[Spirit At Choice]

We often do "conditioning" exercises to strengthen bones and build callouses. I'm getting tougher skin on my striking knuckles; I can only guess if my bones are truly getting stronger.

My question is about bruising. I am fair skinned and frequently come away from energetic training sessions with bruises. I use arnica sometimes to stave off a really nasty bruise I feel coming on, but usually I just ignore them.

The question: If you can condition skin to get tougher, and you can condition bones to get tougher, can you condition the blood vessels? Will I bruise less as time goes on?

[Blackbeltblonde]

Something that might help is taking vitamins and making sure you have enough iron in your system.. Just a thought

~BBB

[elbows_and_knees]

Actually, I've always been told that when it comes to conditioning (chinese threestar drills, arm boxing, etc) that if you get bruised then you are doing it wrong - you are going too hard. Once you have the bruise, you either have to lay off for a while or lighten the contact, which are both counter-productive. You want to clash hard enough to feel it, but not hard enough to bruise.

When it comes to sparring, bruises happen. That's just the result of hard contact.

[marie curie]

Ok, first of all, you don't strengthen your bones by beating on them. If anything it weakens them. The reason athletes tend not to break as easily is because muscle protects our bones.

Anyway, some people bruise more easily than others, but you will probably bruise a little less after a time, as scar tissue builds up in little bits around your cappilaries (which burst to cause bruises). Take that as to be good or bad, but that is what happens.

[KF Dude]

We often do "conditioning" exercises to strengthen bones and build callouses. The question: If you can condition skin to get tougher, and you can condition bones to get tougher, can you condition the blood vessels? Will I bruise less as time goes on?

Over time my bruising became less & less. It's important to use dit da jow & rub out those knots/bruise spots immediately after banging arms. These areas will be tender & you might need a partner to press firmly enough to break up the stagnation. Think of a happy place.

Interestingly, a radiologist at work emphatically aruges against any kind of bone conditioning. Yet with decades of arm/hand conditioning behind them, my Sifu & Sigung don't suffer from any kind of degenerative bone disorder, nerve damage or arthritis.

Edited April 11, 2006 by KF Dude

[elbows_and_knees]

Ok, first of all, you don't strengthen your bones by beating on them. If anything it weakens them. The reason athletes tend not to break as easily is because muscle protects our bones.

that's not true, actually. bone density increases with impact. Why do you think a healing broken bone gets that huge mass of calcium around it? aside from nutrition, weight bearing exercises and impact are great ways to increase bone density. where do you think exercises like iron palm and three star came from? Why do people hit the heavy bag or the makiwara?

[P.A.L]

Ok, first of all, you don't strengthen your bones by beating on them. If anything it weakens them. The reason athletes tend not to break as easily is because muscle protects our bones.

i think it does, when i touch along with my shin ,i can feel some hard botton shape areas sticking out of normal bone structure, i think when we hit shin to shin we may actually create small cracks and when they healed they got build up. right now i have a very painfull spot on my shin which i think is smashed i hope when it heals it become a hard botton.

i also think keep hitting bone on bone may kill small nerves and as a result we wouldn't feel the pain that much

about the brusies , i don't know why but every time you get less in same spot.

[swdw]

Funny- I just answered this on a mailing list. THis response was regarding shin conditioning, but it also applies to conditioning other areas (forearms for example). This will also answer your question on bruising.

-----------------------------------------------

Okee doke,

Can the shins be trained w/o damage- yes

Does it actually help- yes

Before going into methods, I'll explain the physiology behind this. This

comes from a series of discussions with an M.D. that specialized in

neuro muscular disorders. This person taught the physiology / anatomy class I took at the Pacific College of Oriental Medicine. So I'm just passing on what I was told.

Lets look at the reason conditioning reduces bruising first. The blood

vessels are made out of material similar to connective tissue and will

respond to stress in a similar manner. According to her, the capillary

and vessel walls will gain density and maybe even some outer wall

thickness, making it much harder for them to rupture on impact.. This

adaptation occurs without sacrificing any capability of oxygen

/nutrient/waste exchange in the circulatory system. However, the

conditioning must be done correctly or you can create problems. Correct

conditioning is gradual conditioning without causing any bruising.

Bruising signifies ruptured walls which means the vessels have to be

REPAIRED rather than adapted. So microscopic scar tissue is formed.

Lesson here- accidental bruising during training is not an issue as the

overall effect is very small. However, continuously conditioning by

causing bruising is counterproductive and basically . . . . stupid.

This is why the conditioning should be gradual.

Second the "sheath" around the muscle tissue becomes stronger too. You

must maintain your stretching of the areas you condition. Denser tissue

takes more work to improve or recover flexibility than it does to maintain.

Third, the nerve receptors that send the pain signal recede from the

surface of the skin causing you to be less sensitive to pain on impact.

She said there are specific receptors for pain and you can be desensitized to pain w/o other tactile sensory loss (Heat, cold, pleasure, texture, etc). Personal experience seems to agree with her statement.

Fourth, bone density increases due to impact stress. Many studies have

proven this to be true including such activities as running a

jackhammer, punching a heavy bag, chopping wood- you get the idea.

On to conditioning, just keep in mind it's best when done GRADUALLY.

Another precaution- conditioning must be done with the knee flexed!!!!!!

This cannot be emphasized enough. It doesn't have to be bent much, just

never do this with a straight leg.

Stage one- use a padded object. A very basic way is to make a fist and

use the bottom of the fist (end with the little finger). Pound up and

down your shins on both the outside and inside.You can use a dowel like

Brian, but wrap something around it at the beginning level.

Stage two- use something with less padding

Progressively increase the hardness of the object. One intermediate

object is a piece of smaller PVC pipe that will flex.

If bruising occurs, stop conditioning the area and put a good jow on it.

A good commercial one is Zheng Gu Shui. Restart a couple of days AFTER the bruising is completely gone, and back off from where you were.

Remember- don't rush it!

I've seen 60 and 70 year old Goju practitioners that have done this all

their lives with no adverse results, but they were patient and gradually

built up their conditioning. None of them did the Tak Kubota things of

hitting their shins with a hammer or punching the head of sledge hammers hanging from a pivot. They stuck with less extreme methods- and buddeeeee you NEVER wanted to cross shins with these old farts (said in a respectful manner, associated with painful memories)

Your instructor is right on one aspect, the conditioning only stays

with you as long as you keep doing it. This is just a natural

physiological response, and no different than what happens to your

physical conditioning when you quit lifting weights or running.

Basically- use it or lose it.

-----------------------------

Hope this helps

Edited April 12, 2006 by swdw

[swdw]

i think it does, when i touch along with my shin ,i can feel some hard botton shape areas sticking out of normal bone structure, i think when we hit shin to shin we may actually create small cracks and when they healed they got build up. right now i have a very painfull spot on my shin which i think is smashed i hope when it heals it become a hard botton.

i also think keep hitting bone on bone may kill small nerves and as a result we wouldn't feel the pain that much

about the brusies , i don't know why but every time you get less in same spot.

P.A.L. The pain your experienceing is typically not a break in a bone. There is also tissue around the bone which can be traumatized and you can have swelling in the tisue (edema) that causes the pain and makes it sore to the touch.

The treatment for such an injury is ice the first 24 hours and heat after that. I'd also recommend the liniment mentioned in the earlier post.

As for the statement that impact weakens the bones- only if you are suffering from osteoporosis and not taking proper supplements to increase bone density. If such a statement were true; heavy bag training, makiwara training etc would simply create cripples.

From Healing Moves

According to Healing Moves, a variety of exercises will yield bone-building benefits: "Physical impact and weight-bearing exercise stimulates bone formation. Just as a muscle gets stronger and bigger the more you use it, a bone becomes stronger and denser when you regularly place demands upon it. In general, the greater the impact involved, the more it strengthens the bones.

 

The following link is a long article for vets on bone density in horses. It's a good read because the physiological responses are the same for humans. It goes into detail about the phyisology for those interested.

http://www.vetpro.co.nz:888/Vet%20Talk_Equine/improving_bone_density.htm

Edited April 12, 2006 by swdw

[Sensei Rick]

These are all good posts. I would only add that bone is living tissue and cell like in it's structure. With impact these cells become more dense. You'll love having dense bones when your are old and fall and don't break your hip like the rest of the droolers at shady acres nursing home.