a bad name for martial arts.

[bushido_man96]

Elbows_and_knees, you make some very good points, especially about the mixed MA scene. Nobody sees the traditional side of the arts, with the respect sand courtesy and all of that. I think that the problems that most outsiders, including boxers, have with the martial arts has to do with the traditional aspects. People say things like "I have to say 'sir'? What is this, the army?" You don't see that in boxing or MMA the same way it is demonstrated in traditional arts. Traditionalists won't even talk smack openly, like MMA's or boxers do.

[HongKongFooey]

Forget the killing blow nonsense, the Dragon Ball Z chi blast, and the mystical garbage that people try to assign to martial arts. Boxing is given respect because it lacks those traits. That, and the fact that boxers learn to take and give hard shots standing toe to toe with their opponet, in a realistic environment. No tippy tap point sparring in the boxing gym.

Martial arts schools(mine included) teach self defense. There is a big difference between escaping from a headlock and standing toe to toe and trading shots with someone intent on hurting you.

[jaymac]

You are a very glass half full kind of person HongKongFooey

[elbows_and_knees]

Okay about the part were u said that it would be very hard for someone to learn to use weapons, and break bones etc. because the average MA person only trains few times a week.

that may be true to some, but the same can be true to a boxer if that person dose not train much in there gym it would probly have the same affect as to someone who only trains in a MA a dojo only a little. the techniques u know ( including, the weapons and breaking and pressure point etc.) depend own how much u train and practice in the Dojo/ boxing gym, and at home

if a person only practice there techniques when they are at the dojo than of course there not going to be very good. the same can be said if a boxer only practices his moves at the gym 1-2 times a week. he probly wont be very good. many things factor in to a persons fighting abillites. it also depends how well the teachers are nomatter how much u train poor teaching will still equal poor self-defence abillites.

u cant just make an ussomption ( a-sump-tion-- man, i cant spell 2 save my life) like that without looking at the whole picture first.

PEACE

Okay, let's examine some things:

traditional styles:

history, kata, weapons, numerous punches, numerous kicks, bunkai, iron palm / makiwara training, sparring, calesthenics, etc.

boxing:

six predominant punches, roadwork, calesthenics, shadowboxing, mitts/bags, lots of sparring

traditional training has more segments than boxing. even given that the boxer trained 2-3 days a week, he'd still get proficient faster than the traditional guy because his training is more focused and more repetitious. Also, many traditional styles spend more time on forms than they do on application. boxers through their drills are able to do both at the sime time - efficiency.

[UseoForce]

This question is addressed in Mastering Jujitsuy by Renzo Gracie.

Knowing all the deadly techniques in the world doesn't mean dirt if you can't apply them against a resisting partner or opponent.

Boxing techniques might not seem as "deadly" as many Eastern martial art techniques, but they CAN be applied against a resisting person.

OMG, read Mastering Jujitsu people!

[Son Goku the monkeyking]

Okay about the part were u said that it would be very hard for someone to learn to use weapons, and break bones etc. because the average MA person only trains few times a week.

that may be true to some, but the same can be true to a boxer if that person dose not train much in there gym it would probly have the same affect as to someone who only trains in a MA a dojo only a little. the techniques u know ( including, the weapons and breaking and pressure point etc.) depend own how much u train and practice in the Dojo/ boxing gym, and at home

if a person only practice there techniques when they are at the dojo than of course there not going to be very good. the same can be said if a boxer only practices his moves at the gym 1-2 times a week. he probly wont be very good. many things factor in to a persons fighting abillites. it also depends how well the teachers are nomatter how much u train poor teaching will still equal poor self-defence abillites.

u cant just make an ussomption ( a-sump-tion-- man, i cant spell 2 save my life) like that without looking at the whole picture first.

PEACE

Okay, let's examine some things:

traditional styles:

history, kata, weapons, numerous punches, numerous kicks, bunkai, iron palm / makiwara training, sparring, calesthenics, etc.

boxing:

six predominant punches, roadwork, calesthenics, shadowboxing, mitts/bags, lots of sparring

traditional training has more segments than boxing. even given that the boxer trained 2-3 days a week, he'd still get proficient faster than the traditional guy because his training is more focused and more repetitious. Also, many traditional styles spend more time on forms than they do on application. boxers through their drills are able to do both at the sime time - efficiency.

-- true thats why most schools, teach there students forms peace by peace so that they can also show them what the moves are suppose to do aswell, atleast thats what mines does.

we also have to no what a moves does/suppose to do, and show how it works when we test for a different rank in order to pass.

UseoForce Posted: 13th April 2006 Post subject:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

This question is addressed in Mastering Jujitsuy by Renzo Gracie.

 

Knowing all the deadly techniques in the world doesn't mean dirt if you can't apply them against a resisting partner or opponent.

 

Boxing techniques might not seem as "deadly" as many Eastern martial art techniques, but they CAN be applied against a resisting person.

 

OMG, read Mastering Jujitsu people!

 

 

 

 

 

1.) i never said a boxer was not deadly ( just look at mike tyson )

2.) but.. um.. i dont study jujitsu

it seems like some of u are taking sides over which styles of fighting better.

i have heard many people say all the things martial arts dose not do, or things that martial arts dose not do or teach aswell to there students as boxing gyms do. but yet almost all of u ( good 70-80%) are studying a traditional style martial arts youreselfs, or atleast thats what it says by most of ur profiles. but are acting like boxing is better than all of are styles or something.

it seems like atleast one person whould want to stick up for there style or something, or say the positive things that there style teaches that u may not be able to learn in any McDojo, local YMCA and/or a random boxing gym.

anybody.....

PEACE

[HongKongFooey]

Okay about the part were u said that it would be very hard for someone to learn to use weapons, and break bones etc. because the average MA person only trains few times a week.

that may be true to some, but the same can be true to a boxer if that person dose not train much in there gym it would probly have the same affect as to someone who only trains in a MA a dojo only a little. the techniques u know ( including, the weapons and breaking and pressure point etc.) depend own how much u train and practice in the Dojo/ boxing gym, and at home

if a person only practice there techniques when they are at the dojo than of course there not going to be very good. the same can be said if a boxer only practices his moves at the gym 1-2 times a week. he probly wont be very good. many things factor in to a persons fighting abillites. it also depends how well the teachers are nomatter how much u train poor teaching will still equal poor self-defence abillites.

u cant just make an ussomption ( a-sump-tion-- man, i cant spell 2 save my life) like that without looking at the whole picture first.

PEACE

Okay, let's examine some things:

traditional styles:

history, kata, weapons, numerous punches, numerous kicks, bunkai, iron palm / makiwara training, sparring, calesthenics, etc.

boxing:

six predominant punches, roadwork, calesthenics, shadowboxing, mitts/bags, lots of sparring

traditional training has more segments than boxing. even given that the boxer trained 2-3 days a week, he'd still get proficient faster than the traditional guy because his training is more focused and more repetitious. Also, many traditional styles spend more time on forms than they do on application. boxers through their drills are able to do both at the sime time - efficiency.

-- true thats why most schools, teach there students forms peace by peace so that they can also show them what the moves are suppose to do aswell, atleast thats what mines does.

we also have to no what a moves does/suppose to do, and show how it works when we test for a different rank in order to pass.

UseoForce Posted: 13th April 2006 Post subject:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

This question is addressed in Mastering Jujitsuy by Renzo Gracie.

 

Knowing all the deadly techniques in the world doesn't mean dirt if you can't apply them against a resisting partner or opponent.

 

Boxing techniques might not seem as "deadly" as many Eastern martial art techniques, but they CAN be applied against a resisting person.

 

OMG, read Mastering Jujitsu people!

 

 

 

 

 

1.) i never said a boxer was not deadly ( just look at mike tyson )

2.) but.. um.. i dont study jujitsu

it seems like some of u are taking sides over which styles of fighting better.

i have heard many people say all the things martial arts dose not do, or things that martial arts dose not do or teach aswell to there students as boxing gyms do. but yet almost all of u ( good 70-80%) are studying a traditional style martial arts youreselfs, or atleast thats what it says by most of ur profiles. but are acting like boxing is better than all of are styles or something.

it seems like atleast one person whould want to stick up for there style or something, or say the positive things that there style teaches that u may not be able to learn in any McDojo, local YMCA and/or a random boxing gym.

anybody.....

PEACE

I don't think that boxing is better, but I do think that most people in boxng gyms train in a more realistic fashion than most people who train in a karate dojo. The comment was made that martial artists can deliver a killing blow, with any part of their body. How often are those weapons utilised in an average training session? How many people do you know that whine when contact is made during a workout? Look at the sparring in most schools. It's tippy tap, no or light contact. People in these schools aren't allowed to punch to the face, can't kick to the knees or groin. No sweeps, throws or takedowns are allowed, let alone their dim mak chi blast. How is that helping someone defend themselves? Why learn "killing blows" if they can't be applied against the proper targets?

My art is American Kenpo. We work our self defense with contact sometimes very hard contact. When we spar, we hit hard and don't stop after a strike lands. All targets are open except for the throat. Our techniques are designed to be practiced with a certain amount of force, to understand the princible behind the move. Though, not all American Kenpo schools are like that. Some are just like the schools I described earlier in my post, including my previous school.

In todays Martial Arts school, money is he first priority.

You have tippy tap champions that couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Musical forms, and XMA. Throw in the seven year old 3rd Dans, then you start to understand why most martial artists are not taken seriously.

This is not meant to be a slam against anyone posting to this thread. Rant over.

HKF

[elbows_and_knees]

-- true thats why most schools, teach there students forms peace by peace so that they can also show them what the moves are suppose to do aswell, atleast thats what mines does.

and teaching the form piece by piece takes up valuable time. boxers don't have to worry about this. That time is spent drilling and sparring, allowing their skills to progress faster.

2.) but.. um.. i dont study jujitsu

you don't have to. The knowledge in it applies to any style. most of the people on this forum aren't swordsmen, but they've read "a book of five rings" - heck, businessmen read that book. Most people on this forum don't train JKD, yet they've still read "the tao of jeet kune do".

it seems like some of u are taking sides over which styles of fighting better.

it's not about which style is better. It's about which art has better training methods. And it can't be denied that boxers - and sport fighters in general - have superior training methods.

i have heard many people say all the things martial arts dose not do, or things that martial arts dose not do or teach aswell to there students as boxing gyms do. but yet almost all of u ( good 70-80%) are studying a traditional style martial arts youreselfs, or atleast thats what it says by most of ur profiles. but are acting like boxing is better than all of are styles or something.

real recognizes real. that can't be denied. Anyway, see above about training methods.

it seems like atleast one person whould want to stick up for there style or something, or say the positive things that there style teaches that u may not be able to learn in any McDojo, local YMCA and/or a random boxing gym.

muay thai and grappling follow a format identical to boxing, as does capoeira - nothing to stick up for, as we train virtually the same. But like I said, real recognizes real. In the past, I've trained karate, kung fu, jkd... While I learned valuable things, the training was nowhere near as intense as muay thai.

[jaymac]

My point wasn't about which style is better. I love training in Shotokan. I have an excellent (non McDojo) instructor. I also have great respect for the training styles of boxing. I am commenting on how boxing gets a better public opinion because you get what you see. No high flying, circus acrobat kicks, like what most programs on television like to promote as martial arts. My point is, if they put a program, a realistic program about martial arts on television, it may give a better representation of what many of us do in our daily training lives. I do not go to class and learn how to do back flips in my kata, or how to whip a bo around in a non-realistic fighting matter. They do so much realistic t.v. these days, it would be nice to see a show that followed a different, (non XMA) MA studio on a weekly basis.

[UseoForce]

Is that the problem? Is that why people don't read "Mastering Jujitsu?"

Let me make this clear: It is for practitioners of ALL styles. I didn't do jiu-jitsu when I first read it.

In fact, I might not even have been in martial arts yet, I can't remember.

Bottom line: Boxing deserves the reputation it has.