Traditional or Competitions?

[Brandon Fisher]

Yes my system incorporates some of the Shotokan kata. Is it totally traditional technically no because the original kata Pinan, Passai, Kusanku are older. So it is how you look at it. Traditional to me anyway and in todays world is not having back flips and throwing weapons in the air and wearing a traditional dogi.

However Shotokan in modern form is really more sport with its lower and longer stances, however my wife who is about to become one of my black belts asked me recently about my stances and the difference in actual shotokan. My stances are higher when I practice kata, more like Okinawan karate. One day I may start teaching the Pinan kata vs. the Heian and Passai vs. Bassai but for now it is what it is. But I truly believe that one should know where the kata originated and how the names were changed.

I hope this answers your question.

[GOM]

Brendon, your reply did answer my question very well, thank you very much. I 100% agree with what you said. I also refer to a traditional karate school as one who practises kata that can be linked back to the original form, as well as a white uniform, belt system and no frills.

My dojo went through the same situation as you are in now. My instructor (father) started his karate career practising an off shoot of Shotokan, Heian kata through to the advanced, with all the usual stances, blocks and kicks. For almost 30 years he did shotokan until he decided to go back to older style kata, Pinan, Passai, Nihanchi and so forth. From then on, we haven't looked back. Our knees, hips and other joints dont hurt anymore. We scrapped a lot of excess baggage we didn't need, and really got down to the core of karate and what we thought worked and didn't work.

Anyway, sorry about the waffling on, but thought I would share with you what our dojo went through.

[Brandon Fisher]

I very much appreciate it the comments. I have done the same thing over the past 10 years I added kata to the ciriculum with my first instructor and many other things to his system. I built it to what it is today and then he gave me the boot with no explanation. Well thats ok because all that work and time is now going into my own system that I think 30 years from now will be very solid more than it is today and it is solid now.

[elbows_and_knees]

I disagree, you can train to either be a traditional or a sports-karateka, but in the opposite situation you will be in trouble. Your mind is used to one way. If you are a sports-type karateka then you will hesitate to employ something lethal or restrict yourself in a deadly situation and vice-versa, if you are more into combat-karate then you may accidently hurt your opponent in a tournament. I know many senseis that would agree with me on this, but that's just my two cents....

The more I hear people say this, and the longer I work as a bouncer, the more I disagree with it.

1. there is nothing wrong with restriction. In the club, we are not allowed to strike - we can only restrain. lawsuits come very easily these days. So, when faced with multiple opponents and weapons, I use muay thai clinching and my judo and bjj training. On rare occasion, I may throw an elbow, short punch or knee - things I can easily mask as being accidental. Not throwing "lethal" strikes has never been necessary.

2. I've seen traditional cats get mauled in streetfights. Where were the lethal strikes then?

3. it's HARD to hit many of those targets properly when you are fighting a person who does not want to get hit. I once sparred a guy and allowed groin and throat shots, encouraging him to hit me there. He could not. It's not because I'm good - he was actually a higher rank than me (I was training in a traditional school at the time) it's just darn hard to do.

Edited April 6, 2006 by elbows_and_knees

[Brandon Fisher]

Thats true it is very hard to strike smaller vital points in a real situation.

[Makushi]

I also refer to a traditional karate school as one who practises kata that can be linked back to the original form, as well as a white uniform, belt system and no frills.

Weren't the white uniforms and belt system an import from Dr. Kano's judo system? As such, they really aren't tied to "traditional" Okinawan Karate.

Going back to the original question, competitions can serve a couple different uses for the traditional, non-sport, kareta-ka.

Firstly, the intese training leading up to the tournament can help with the development of both skills and conditioning.

Secondly, participation in a competition can help a person to grow accustomed to perfroming techniques in a stressful and upredictable environment.

Both of the above will help the traditional karate-ka to be more adept in real situations.

[GOM]

I also refer to a traditional karate school as one who practises kata that can be linked back to the original form, as well as a white uniform, belt system and no frills.

Weren't the white uniforms and belt system an import from Dr. Kano's judo system? As such, they really aren't tied to "traditional" Okinawan Karate.

I am not sure about the white uniform, but I believe the belt system comes from Japanese swimming. As long as they aren't wearing coloured uniforms (i.e green. blue, pink etc), then I classify them as a traditional karate school.

[innocui]

I'm a tradionalist, but i belive tournaments can show you the level you are at within your own grade...you may by the best brown belt in your class, but regionally, or nationally, you may only be mediocre

[jaymac]

I think for the most part, tournaments can be a fun experience in your training, but as I have said in other posts, most tournaments I have seen lately are not based on anything traditional. The competitors do flashy, acrobatic, non effective techniques. I guess that is what people want to see. Me personally, I miss the tournaments from 20 years ago, when you could go and watch a great representation of every style and competitor.

[GOM]

Jaymac - What kind of tournaments are you going to? WKF? ITKF? JKA? Or are you going to mixed styles?