Probably the most ironic Situation....

[zerosl]

do it out of school, tell him if he wants to pick a fight with you, if you must fight, fight out of school.

but of course, the best way out, is not to fight at all!

if you can demonstrate to one person that you can beat them, the rest will probably back off as well

[DokterVet]

Ive a dilema id like to share with you all, and ask your advice on.

The school I attend has been having a seriouse issue with "problem children". Chavs, rudies, rebels; call them what you will, they have a problem with themselves, and more importantly us 6th formers. Its manily the year nines (3rd year seniors) who seem to think thier some kind of gangsta, constantly using verbal and somtimes physical violence. Its not just a few of the kids, it the majority of the year group.

Now the school I go to has a strict "No Nonsense" bullying policy, that is they say they do thier best to catch and punish anyone caughty bullying. This they do, but herein lies the first ironic situation. If a year nine provokes a 6th former with verbal or even physical violence, and the sixth former acts the defend himself in any way it is the 6th former who is punished, often ending in suspension and an ugly black mark on their record. The rule created to protect us is the thing stopping us from protecting ourselves.

On top of this word has gotten out that I study karate, and thier are a few people who seem to be trying to goad me into a fight. The teachers are completly ignorant of my situation, so no help their, and I find myself being targeted because of the very thing I study to keep me safe. Im hoping to join the army soon and really don't need any "Prone to violent verbal and physical outburst" remarks on my record. On top of that I don't want to use what I know and risk getting turned out of my karate club or somthing stupid.

Has anyone else been in this situation; targeted because they study martial arts, and how did/would they handle this current situation

Arrigato in advance

Your situation is exactly what is wrong with zero tolerance policies.

Zero tolerance promotes bullying and dishonesty, favours students who have nothing to lose, demeans and cripples well-meaning, honest, self-respecting students. It discourages students from defending themselves, standing up for what's right, and doing the right thing in many situations.

I'm sorry I don't have much advice for you because you are in such a terrible system. Zero tolerance allowed really mean kids to walk all over other kids when I was in high school and it seems to be doing the same to you.

I don't have any advice to you, but I advise that others on the board to not support zero tolerance policies in schools.

[mtheiss]

Good idea.

[Hidden_Ronin]

Just thought id tell you all how things are now. Sixth forms officially over for me, i only return to look after a disabled kid. The comments are thier, but not as bad now that some of the older kids have left. The younger cowards don;t seem as keen to pick a fight with a sixth former when its only the three of them. Name calling is ok to deal with, but now the challenges are gone things are less troubling. ive even had one of the first years hanging around with me for "protection". Looks like things turned out fine in the end, and no-one got anything more than a bruised ego. Its still worries me to think that thiers a new generation of cowards and weaklings waiting to pick fights they know they can win, and Ill be powerless to do anything about it come late July. All i can do is keep the staff informed, its not my place to start busting skulls. Some times we have to learn to defend ourselves.

Like the Dojo Kun says "Karate is an aide to Justice"

[RichardHangHong]

Mike,

Cowards always get brave when they've got the numbers, but revert back to their natural state of being chicken when they're a minority.

You did the right thing by ignoring them and not giving them the reaction they wanted. You showed them that you are the better person and therefore made them look (and very much likely feel) pretty stupid. Good job on inviting them down to a class. I often do the same with troublesome kids that hang around near my dojos. As none of them ever have any bottle they always go away the instant I invite them to train. On the rare occasion one of them comes back and tries a class, sometimes even sticking at it, becoming a better person and learning to love the art.

For any other similar situations in the future I'd recommend talking to Sensei Steve for additional advice.

[Hidden_Ronin]

Yeah, i thought about talking to Sensei about it, but somthing stopped me, like the feeling i would be bugging him. Thier was an incident yesterday actully. It was in the library. Michelle (the girl whom i keep an eye on) was doing some homework so thier was little else for me to do but sit my backside and listen to my mp3 player. I kinda zone out when I do that, but somthing caught my eye mid track. These three kids, three of the scum I talk about, were laying into this one kid for now reason. He was threatening him, and hitting him. The one on his own caught the bullys arms and yanked it away, telling him to leave him alone. I asked the three, firmly, to leave him alone. I exsplained why i wasn't impressed by thier cowardice, and that they were weaklings for ganging up on somone. I got a mouthful of abuse from the most violent one.

Fair enough, jokes about my hair colour arn't exactly new, i pressed the play button and listened to the rest of the track, also noting the librarbians were nowere in sight. Again the little kid begins pounding the one next to him, for no reason at all. I was watching. He didn;t say a word all lunch break.

I admit it, i lost my temper. I was bullied all through senior scholl and it would be a very breezy day in hell before i sat thier and did nothing. I had tried the diplomatic approach, and i was annoyed that two people could jeer someone on to physically attack someone who has done absolutly nothing wrong. I dashed over to the most violent one, the one who had given me abuse earlier, and grabbed him by the back of the neck and forehead, pushing him sideways in his chair. I was so wound up that i screamed at him "If you don't top hitting him i swear ill beat you 100 times worse!" or somthing liek that. I let go and sat down again.

The kid who had been bullying burst into tears. The one whod been acting hard actually began bawling his eyes out, claiming i almost broke his neck or somthing. His two mates then began giving me abuse, one threatened to dial 999 because "you know Karate and am thierfore dangerouse. how do I know you won't hit me. its an emergeny". his words, or words to that effect. after that all three left, I appologised to the librarian, who had shown up to late for the disurbance and paced the library to calm my nerves. after mr tough guy had dried his eyes and threatened to "cut my throat" of course.

Apprently hes made a complaint, but he won't get an appology, not in a thousand years. If it makes me a bad person for acting on instict so be it, but as far as I can see three bullies got shown up for the snivelling cowards they are and thiers somone who knows hes not alone when it comes to facing up to this kind of behavior.

Sorry if I rambled or sounded self rightouse, thought id share my plight with other martial artists

Respectfully

Mike

[RichardHangHong]

You did the right thing Mike. Sticking up for that kid was good of you, and you didn't hit any of the kids, just grabbed one and shoved him out the way. Teachers can't even do that now because of all the over the top laws "protecting" children in schools these days.

My other half was a substitute teacher for a while and told me all this and I couldn't believe it. E.g: If a couple of kids are having a scrap or a few kids are beating on just one like in your library situation and a teacher goes in and pulls them apart, the teacher is the one who gets done for "assault" and will most likely get sacked or suspended.

Teachers have no power of authority in schools nowadays and the worse thing is that the kids know this! They know they can get away with pretty much anything and use that to their advantage. Thankfully none of this stupidity has found itself into the dojos as it would be the end of martial arts as we know it.

In my early days as a junior grade, I remember if someone in class had a major problem, i.e. hurting/bullying other students and was not listening to the warnings given to them, the instructors or seniors would just give them a little "attitude adjustment" to drive the point home and hey presto! no more problem. We never had anyone quit after an attitude adjustment either as it was always explained to them why it was given after the lesson had finished so they understood what they had done wrong.

Shame we can't do attitude adjustments in schools!

[Why_Worry]

Good job, but just remember that if there are people like that who annoy you, you can learn alot from them. If people randomly hit you, thats even better because it will help keep you aware all day and in turn make you a happier person and a better martial artist.

However, if someone is bullying someone who cant take it, then you should stop it. Just remember you dont have to hurt them too much, and hopefully not at all.

Just a few, uh, sugestions... try say sweeping a leg and catching them, that would embarrass them, just make sure you will catch them. You could also grab a pressure point, once they see you hurt them so much with two fingers, they wont get you again.

However, if you know who you are, there should be no reason to be offend by other people.

[Hidden_Ronin]

Thanks for the replys Richard and everyone,

Its to hear that people think like I do,Ill keep you all posted on the situation.

[RichardHangHong]

No worries Mike. See you at class tomorrow if you're there.