Bo or Jo

[Sohan]

We always use a straight back leg in a front bo stance because we are more grounded and can generate more power from the floor. I think the biggest fault I see, though, is not maintaining the knee over the toe during the stance.

But, as Holland said, different grips/stances, for different systems and katas.

With respect,

Sohan

[Holland]

Oracle, I think you are taking whatever style you take and generalizing it for all styles.

If you are doing a kata that is always in thirds with the exception of baseball swinging it, then I would have to assume that you have not learned all that many bo katas and not too many really advanced ones. While your comment holds true for many katas, it certainly does not apply for all.

In Isshinryu katas we do not have a straight back leg in our bo katas. Our stances are very upright and I have seen plenty of good katas done this way.

As for the striking yourself hard comment....I guess we will just have to disagree on that. I am not tournament illiterate, having been going to a few a year for the past 17 years now, and while I have seen some good kata where it looks like the practicioner has beat the crap outta himself with his weapon, I have also seen many who can look crisp and powerful without hardly striking themselves at all.

I just really doubt that an okinawan master such as Taira Shinken taught his students to beat the snot out of their arms and ribs with their own weapons....that just does not compute with me. It also goes against all kobudo training I have received. (which is a relatively significant amount)

Anyhow...to each his own. Just be careful about generalizing.

[Oracle]

We do disagree...with respect. Tokumine, Urashi and Shishi all require that the bo be held in thirds the majority of the time.

I am sure you understand that the katas you see today are much different that what Tatsuo Shimabuku did back in the day. Contrary to popular myth, many of today's practitioners would easlily present a better form. Master Uezu by example, exemplifies this very well.

Not to step on any toes, every style thinks they are the best. I can assure you that a properly executed Urashi Bo form would not do well in a top level open competition vs a very dynamic Casey Marks for example. Yes, it would do well at a IWKA,AOKA or Oikka event.

If you train correctly not (politcally correctly) doing forward and reverse strikes, you have to by default hit hard. In fact, someone new to this type of training will have black and blue shoulders and ribs from the contact.

Their is no way to get around this if you are doing the strikes properly. The problem is that you are equating my comments with working out with a war bo . It's very hard to move that weapon fast enough to generate a snap....which is my point.

Nobody would pick up a tree log to defend themselves if a strong, lighter alternative was near by.

Very few competitors do Isshin Ryu weapons katas, my comment about the bent back leg is pointed to the 98.5% of the other forms that are supposed to have proper forward stances.

Watch next time you see a student transition from the circle blocks in tokumine to the zenkuts stance going the opposite direction and look for the bent back leg and you smile when you remember this discussion.

[Brandon Fisher]

I highly suggest starting with either a 5ft bo or a 6ft bo depending on your height. As far as lightweight competition bo's I personally do not have any use for them.

[Holland]

While my background is in Isshinryu, I am about to test for my shodan in kobudo in a shito ryu school. The instructor has competed at an international level and still alot of what you say is rather narrow in scope.

The most advanced kata I know is from the Koga Ryu style (their 4th bo kata) It is a beast and uses the entire length of the bo throughout the kata. You hold the bo in thirds perhaps half of the time...certainly not "always." Moreover, you just do not beat on yourself during the kata, or any kata that I have learned. I am not saying that this is not done, I am just saying that it is foolishness to believe that it is necessary to do this to be competitive.

Moreover this kata has many back stances in which the back leg is bent...once again debunking what you are saying.

I am not defending isshinryu bo katas nor even discussing the kobudo Shimabuku taught. His own knowledge of weapons was limited by all accounts and that is partly why I sought out a new weapons instructor from another style. Do not think that just because my roots are in Isshinryu that I have the narrow view that many in my style have.

As you mentioned, Tokumine, Urashi and Shishi are all held in thirds...but those are not very advanced katas and I was in no means refering to them.

Isshinryu is a good style...no doubt. But it is not the end all of end alls in karate. I realize this, and I also realize that I have alot to learn still. Moreover in realizing this, I would never dare to make statements blanketing all katas into a few simple rules, that in truth, are ficticious.

We certainly have to disagree, and with respect.

[bushido_man96]

I stand corrected on #1, I shouldn't have said always, as in a baseball swing. Most when doing simple forward strikes/reverse strikes keep hands too close together.

With regard to #2, I differ. All top competitors , in all of the major circuits strike hard.

If your not striking hard your not striking fast. This is one thing that seperates the best from the rest.

Most have bent legs because of lack of conditioning and training. I am not stereotyping anyone, these are common mistakes.

As a example, many do deep front stances in their bo forms, the back leg is not supposed to be bent . The leg should be straight with the foot facing forward with heel on the ground. Next time you go to a school or competition look to see how many do this correctly. Maybe 1-2 out of 30 do this correctly.

In reality their are only a handfull of schools in the US that actually train for Bo correctly. All of the top people migrate to these schools eventually.

Arturo Espina in Miami, Joe Greenhalgh in Rhode Island, Casey Marks and Mike Bernado in Ontario, John Sharkey in Chicago to name a few.

Are you speaking strictly for competition purposes, of for fighting/weapons applications purposes. I am very interested in the bo and the jo, but I am not terribly interested in forms competition. I want to do some contact weapon sparring/drilling.

[bushido_man96]

Are there any good books out there dealing with these two weapons? I have Fumio Demura's Bo book, and I have Dave Lowry's Jo book. Are there any others?