How Do You Think Kata Promotes Fighting Skill

[elbows_and_knees]

Kata is the basis of all martial arts.

that depends on exactly what you refer to as a kata. wrestling, bjj, muay thai, capoeira, etc. have no kata. they practice technique repetitively, but that's not necessarily kata...

[shotokanwarrior]

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jaymac wrote:

Kata is the basis of all martial arts.

that depends on exactly what you refer to as a kata. wrestling, bjj, muay thai, capoeira, etc. have no kata. they practice technique repetitively, but that's not necessarily kata...

I am sure that he means traditional martial arts. If the above sports were all of a sudden banned by the government, how would we hide the training? Maybe in a kata

[Jussi Häkkinen]

I am sure that he means traditional martial arts. If the above sports were all of a sudden banned by the government, how would we hide the training? Maybe in a kata

Why? There never was anything "hidden in kata".

[elbows_and_knees]

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jaymac wrote:

Kata is the basis of all martial arts.

that depends on exactly what you refer to as a kata. wrestling, bjj, muay thai, capoeira, etc. have no kata. they practice technique repetitively, but that's not necessarily kata...

I am sure that he means traditional martial arts. If the above sports were all of a sudden banned by the government, how would we hide the training? Maybe in a kata

capoeira is traditional. wrestling is perhaps the most traditional style on the planet. Every civilization since the beginning of recorded history has had an indigenous wrestling style. bjj came from judo - in a lot of judo schools, you don't even start learning kata until brown belt, because you aren't required to know any of them until brown...

As jussi said though, there isn't anything hidden in kata. forms were created to catalog the style and provide not only a means of self practice, but a way of easily transmitting the system. the intention was not to hide applications.

and more realistically speaking, with all the weapons technology we have today, I don't think we EVER have to worry about the government banning MA practice.

[elbows_and_knees]

even within kung fu - shuai chiao, for example - doesn't have "forms" per se. there forms are nothing more than single movement technique drills. fighting skill is built through use of these drills, traditional weight training (pulley, rock pole, etc) and free sparring. no long forms, no "hidden" applications...

[Menjo]

As jussi said though, there isn't anything hidden in kata. forms were created to catalog the style and provide not only a means of self practice, but a way of easily transmitting the system. the intention was not to hide applications.

Right, I'll go with this.

Many people miss alot of the little things in kata, only through training does our vision become clearer of the world.

I realize I'm swaying off topic, but stay with me.

In a sort of Taoist and traditional way of thinking, the only "hidden" things are in anything in life(or most) is because we dont have the mindset to realize the more suttle things in an act or object, such as fighting.

I may not be Taoist, but I can see how this is a effective way of thinking and appling it to a real life situation.

So in a sense, what Im saying in a tedious manner, is that to certain people(most non-MA), parts of a kata may seem hidden, when really it was their "unclear" minds deceiving them.

Alot of what I've said has come from Miyamoto Musashi's ideals(although many many others have thought of the same ideas, I chose this for referance), I enjoy his thoughts of taking away all the "useless" acts you do in martial arts, and you start to benifit from clarity. This clarity through hard training and dedication...ect is an example of achieving speed and power through proper technique. Some refer to this as a certain state of mind, which is useful in all aspects of life.

Just my 2 cents...

[shotokanwarrior]

There are a lot of things hidden in kata. Do you really think that the Okinawins would greet the Japanese and Americans with open arm and show them their secrets? Especially after we dropped a couple of big bombs on japan. Yes they showed us Karate but did they show us everything?

What if Iran, invaded us and we lost, would you show your new overloards your fighting arts? or just enough to please them?

[elbows_and_knees]

interesting. looking at it that way, what of the okinawan kata? are there hidden things in their arts? who were they hiding from, the chinese? what about chinese arts? who were they hiding from? indians? and whom where they hiding from?

I don't think it's a case of hidden technique. maybe refusal to teach a technique, but not necessarily hiding it. take for example the chinese technique "shoot the bow". it looks as if you are redirecting a punch upward as you shoot into a horse stance and punch them in the midsection. It very well could be. But, another application of it is a fireman's carry. If I didn't show it to you, who knows, you may miss it. Since I don't like you (for example) I'm not going to show you. Years later, someone else examines the posture deeply and says "hey, that's a fireman's carry!" was the application hidden? No. I just had not shown it to you and you taught they technique without ever knowing, so when someone did "discover" it, it seemed like something hidden.

[granmasterchen]

you make a very good point in the way that you worded it shotokanwarrior because that it "exactly" how it has developed and been passed on from one generation to the next from one government to another....by studying the history of martial arts, specifically kata, you will see that this idea is very true and can be found in many japanese, korean and chinese schools' backgrounds today.

[elbows_and_knees]

by studying the history of martial arts, specifically kata, you will see that this idea is very true and can be found in many japanese, korean and chinese schools' backgrounds today.

If I'm not mistaken, most of the old chinese schools either had no forms at all, or only had one or two. shuai chiao is an example. styles having multiple forms was something that happened later down the line.