what are your thoughts on this?

[Ottman]

Great thread! I'm really enjoying the discussion here.

I have to say that as a MMA guy, it's not that I don't care about the traditional aspects of MA's nor do I think that focusing on one art is detrimental to becoming a great fighter (in fact just the opposite) but I do feel that if you close your mind to other styles and methods, you're just setting yourself up to get beaten by those other methods because you're not used to them, and can't identify them when they're being used against you. So even if you aren't going to use techniques from a different style, it's still beneficial to know what they are and become familiar with them.

[shotokanbeginner]

Great thread! I'm really enjoying the discussion here.

I have to say that as a MMA guy, it's not that I don't care about the traditional aspects of MA's nor do I think that focusing on one art is detrimental to becoming a great fighter (in fact just the opposite) but I do feel that if you close your mind to other styles and methods, you're just setting yourself up to get beaten by those other methods because you're not used to them, and can't identify them when they're being used against you. So even if you aren't going to use techniques from a different style, it's still beneficial to know what they are and become familiar with them.

yeah I enjoyed this thread to, I agree with you muchly.

[TJS]

It's a bit late but just for the record Ryoto Machida was a BJJ purple belt under Ricardo De la riva as of 2003-2004..so I would assume he is atleast at or near brown belt these days.

just food for though.

[patusai]

Both are simply a way of defense. Who wins depends on many factors. Training, the individual, the instructor and even where one stands in relationship to the other before the battle (sun, swells and mounds in the gound, asphault, concrete grass, dirt weed and sugh things like that). I'll admit that I use to worry about who or what is better. In time I think people stop worrying about such things and concentrate more on training

[shotokanbeginner]

Both are simply a way of defense. Who wins depends on many factors. Training, the individual, the instructor and even where one stands in relationship to the other before the battle (sun, swells and mounds in the gound, asphault, concrete grass, dirt weed and sugh things like that). I'll admit that I use to worry about who or what is better. In time I think people stop worrying about such things and concentrate more on training

Yeah there are many factors that can give one the upper hand or visa versa. I will start focusing more on trainging it's just I wanna be the best (well near best there are certain people I will never match but you know).

[patusai]

Good Luck in your training

[ps1]

I'm going to take this back to the original thread question and explain why a Judoka would beat a Karateka assuming they both had similar training time, size, strength, and athletic ablitiy.

It is because Jigoro Kano was a genius. He developed a system that can be practiced at virtually full speed, power and applied to another human being safely. Because of this...a Judoka with say 3 years of training would have much more experience actually applying his (or her) techniques in a combative situation than a Karateka.

Sure, Karate is a great system and we train hard and hit hard. But we simply can not apply our techniques in full force to a living human being over and over.

A judoka can practice closing the distance and executing a hip throw at full speed and power far more.

It is a simple as that. The Judoka would be far less likely to become frustrated or rattled in an actual situation.

Karate takes a very long time to learn. At black belt...many karateka have still not developed the timing and distancing necessary to make their techniques extremely effective against a full on assult. However, at Black belt, a Judoka has fought literally hundreds of matches at full force. That is the genius of Jigoro Kano.

I will also point out that I am not saying one is better than the other. Just that it takes far longer to foster the skills necessary for combat effectiveness in Shotokan (and most other standing systems). And that this is simply due to the inherent danger that exists in striking another human being vs. grappling and throwing which is far more gentle (ju) and forgiving on the body.

Thanks

[ps1]

Did I mention that Judo is considered the safest sport to practice for kids under age 13 by the American College of Sports Medicine? Kano was a genius. And I don't even hold rank in Judo. It just has to be recognized.

[bushido_man96]

I believe that it is the practitioner that makes the difference, not the style. There are street fighters out there that can prove this point. My late grandfather on my father's side had no martial training in his life, save for what he might have learned in the Navy. When my dad was 13, he watched him take a gun from another man, and proceed to pistol whip him until he was no longer stupid.

My point is, a fighter can get just as much experience in the streets as anyone training daily can. In fact, his training may be better because he learns everything at full speed, and in real situations. I DO NOT CONDONE THIS KIND OF TRAINING, HOWEVER. I am just using this scenario to make a point.

[bushido_man96]

Given remotely similar skill levels, I would bet on a pure judo player over a pure karate player virtually every time.

It is much easier for a grappler to close the distance to clinch range than it is for a pure striker to keep the grappler at a distance and damage him with strikes.

This has been demonstrated in hundreds or thousands of full-contact mixed martial arts fights.

However, to be a rounded fighter, one should train striking and grappling.

Yup that is right, and that is why I plan on taking a grappling art as well once I get to a good enough level. I can't say I completely agree with you though because the whole grappler and versus striker thing is true, full contact martial arts tournaments aren't realistic really many vital areas are not aloud to be hit, which I think gives grapplers a little bit of an edge in stuff like the U.F.C. and what not.

You make a good point about the rules involved in the UFC and other "full contact" venues.

If the grappler shoots, then he should expect punches to the back of the head, elbows to the back and neck, and possibly a knee to the face. At the same time, if a karate-ka kicks, he should be ready for a single-leg take down. There are so many variables, it is impossible to argue.

Essentially, these arguements always become a battle of egos, and nothing more.