what are your thoughts on this?

[juey palancu]

Hey shotokan beginner,

Do not let anybody discourage you from inmersing yourself in the study of traditional shotokan. Many people will use UFC, etc. results to say grappling and/or mixed arts are superior, and this is simply not true.

In fact, look up a fighter named Ryoto Machida. He is a pure shotokan practicioner who won the International Traditional Karate Federation Pan-american Championships (jiyu kumite, JKA style) in 2001. A very strong karateka, he decided to try his luck at MMA fighting. In his 6-7 fights he is unbeaten, and his wins include knockouts of UFC middleweight champion Rich 'Ace' Franklin (he knocked Franklin out cold) and standout Stephan Bonnar, as well as a decision win over submission artist and Matt Hughes' conqueror, B.J. 'The prodigy' Penn. I've seen his fights, and he fights like a shotokan karateka, out of a senkutzu dachi, etc.

So, there you have it, for those who say a traditional karateka cannot make it in mixed martial arts...

best!

Gero

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Nidan-Traditional Shotokan

[marie curie]

I think that it is a good system for developing an appreciation for the traditional arts.

[TJS]

Hey shotokan beginner,

Do not let anybody discourage you from inmersing yourself in the study of traditional shotokan. Many people will use UFC, etc. results to say grappling and/or mixed arts are superior, and this is simply not true.

In fact, look up a fighter named Ryoto Machida. He is a pure shotokan practicioner who won the International Traditional Karate Federation Pan-american Championships (jiyu kumite, JKA style) in 2001. A very strong karateka, he decided to try his luck at MMA fighting. In his 6-7 fights he is unbeaten, and his wins include knockouts of UFC middleweight champion Rich 'Ace' Franklin (he knocked Franklin out cold) and standout Stephan Bonnar, as well as a decision win over submission artist and Matt Hughes' conqueror, B.J. 'The prodigy' Penn. I've seen his fights, and he fights like a shotokan karateka, out of a senkutzu dachi, etc.

So, there you have it, for those who say a traditional karateka cannot make it in mixed martial arts...

best!

Gero

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Nidan-Traditional Shotokan

Do you honetly belive Machida is a pure karate stylist? Maybe the karate schools in brazil have submissions, wrestling and groundfighting in them...either that or he has trained extensively in other stlyes..

Who said you cant come from a karate background and be sucessful..there are plenty of guys who train karate(mostly Kyokushin) at on point...semmy schilt, Bas Rutten, GSP etc. None of them are pure karate practicioners though and neither is Ryoto..he has very capable wrestling and jiu jitsu and has even won fights by submission...btw penn's heaviest fighting weight should be 155-170..Ryoto is like 215..So I wouldent really uses that one to talk about his skill,specially since it was a close fight and Ryoto couldent finish him.

[juey palancu]

Ok, ok....I sholdnt have said 'pure'....'pure' anything doesnt really exist...but very predominantly shotokan, yes. I was just responding to all the messages out-there(and there are many) that say traditional karate doesn't work! Ryoto Machida didn't come out of a McDojo, by the way, his father is a 7th dan master and very respected in traditional shotokan circles...

Cm'on with the weight classes, Royce Gracie didnt need them to dominate his opposition a few years ago! BJ, who is the man, and I am huge fan of, by the way, did not make excuses so nobody should make them for him! What' the excuse for Franklin (who is dominating UFC lately) then?

good discussion, keep it going!

Gero

[TJS]

Well first off I do think Ryoto is a good fighter and has beaten some good guys but he still hasant been really tested by any of the top fighters at 205lb's such as Liddell, Tito, Silva, shogun, overeem, belfort etc.

But thats not even the point of debate, this is-

Many people will use UFC, etc. results to say grappling and/or mixed arts are superior, and this is simply not true.

There is a falacy in your statement. First off as we established Ryoto is not a pure Karateka and obviously cross trains in other styles. Secondly he is obviously a better fighter for doing so. If he had never studied any grappling, groudfighting or wrestling he certainly would not have submited any opponets and would have likely fallen prey to a submission..especially against BJ penn since they were one the ground for some time.

The bottom line is you are saying mixing styles is not superior when it is. Ryoto is better than he would be if he trained only in karate and never cross trained.

[shotokanbeginner]

these were all interesting and great comments, thanks

[jaymac]

I have to add my opinion because I get so tired of hearing one style is better than the other. What you said shotokanbeginner at the very start of your post that it depends on the practitioner and how they train and their instructor, was the most accurate. I started in MA to gain abilities in many areas. Never did I think, "I am going to take Shotokan so I can beat up that judo practitioner or go into a ring and fight a UFC practitioner." And I am not saying you would either. I just think those individual who whine that there art is better than another is missing the point of taking martial arts in the first place and they are immensely immature. My instructor teaches to never speak bad about other Martial Arts or other Martial Artist. He is a very smart man.

[Menjo]

these were all interesting and great comments, thanks

It was a risky decision to make that post, I'll give you that!...

[younwhadoug]

in youn wha ryu we are tought as tae kwon do students, my instructor introduced randori to the class about a year ago and as we progress we learn about aikido, hapkido, judo, chinese boxing and a few others, i'm ot there yet lol. the point is our style trains you to perform your martial arts, and also have a ready arsenal for a time you might actually need to use it. we have been critisized by the ussual "its not a rel ma" people til they come to a tourny. i think kerate will take you a long way but keep your mind open to the ground arts. you wouldn't want to have to rely on kicks and punches from on your back with a bigger person beating you up.

[shotokanbeginner]

I have to add my opinion because I get so tired of hearing one style is better than the other. What you said shotokanbeginner at the very start of your post that it depends on the practitioner and how they train and their instructor, was the most accurate. I started in MA to gain abilities in many areas. Never did I think, "I am going to take Shotokan so I can beat up that judo practitioner or go into a ring and fight a UFC practitioner." And I am not saying you would either. I just think those individual who whine that there art is better than another is missing the point of taking martial arts in the first place and they are immensely immature. My instructor teaches to never speak bad about other Martial Arts or other Martial Artist. He is a very smart man.

Yeah my teacher says never to bad mouth other styles as well, we often learn some things from other styles as well. He encourages cross trainging, but he says usually it is better if you start cross training when you get to about a brown belt level.