karate kid 1 Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 sorry i dont have a clue FEAR is only a four letter wordRORY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 well the original kata was called Channan. It is very similar to the first 3 heians put together. The opening of this kata is like Heian Nidan. Anyway, Itosu broke the Channan kata into 3 smaller peices to teach it to school children back in the 1890's. The other 2 Heian katas were added much later. Anyway, originally Pinan (Heian) Shodan was Pinan Nidan, but because of the difficulty it was changed to Nidan around 1920 and Nidan became Shodan.We still practice Channan in Saishu Ryu, it is one of the kata that I personally feel that Shotokan should still be practicing at around black belt or higher. Just because the application in it is great, esp with the shorter Nekoashi Dachi's and whatnot.John John McNichols-----------------https://www.katamasters.comhttps://www.saishuryu.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelaG Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 We still practice Channan in Saishu Ryu, it is one of the kata that I personally feel that Shotokan should still be practicing at around black belt or higher. Just because the application in it is great, esp with the shorter Nekoashi Dachi's and whatnot.JohnOut of interest, what do you think Channan gives that Kanku Dai doesn't? Tokonkai Karate-do Instructorhttp://www.karateresource.com Kata, Bunkai, Articles, Reviews, History, Uncovering the Myths, Discussion Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Out of interest, what do you think Channan gives that Kanku Dai doesn't?Well, Channan has shorter stances for one. It has a lot of Nekoashi Dachi, which is kind of forign to Shotokan, since they opt for a lot of the longer stances like Kokutsu Dachi vice Nekoashi. However if you are talking Shotokan Kanku Dai, it's a whole different ball game. Channan is compairable to Chatan Yara Kusanku. The Shotokan version of Kanku Dai is a whole different ball game than the okinawan versions of Kusanku. Stances and distancing are totally different. I think it's a good kata to add to a system like Shotokan because of the extreme differences in the stances and how the techniques can be applied. Compairing the two is like compairing Pinan to Heian, they are suppose to be the same, but they are so totally different it's day and night.John John McNichols-----------------https://www.katamasters.comhttps://www.saishuryu.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelaG Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Shotokan does have nekoashi dachi though, although I agree it is not as prevalent. Bearing in mind that Shotokan looks different anyway because of the stylised stances, but that principles are often the same, what principles does Channan have that Heian/Pinan or Kusanku/Kanku Dai does not? What message is this kata trying to impart? Tokonkai Karate-do Instructorhttp://www.karateresource.com Kata, Bunkai, Articles, Reviews, History, Uncovering the Myths, Discussion Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 What message is this kata trying to impart?I thought this thread was about the Heian Kata's and their order and why. Not where does Channan fall in the big scheme of things. I have noticed that a lot of Shotokan people are touchy about this subject, and I was just trying to shed some light on this. If you want to know more about Channan you should really contact my sensei, or someone within my organization. I am just starting to learn this kata, so I'm not really qualified as of yet to say what this kata is trying to impart. Right now I'm just trying to get the order down and stuff.John John McNichols-----------------https://www.katamasters.comhttps://www.saishuryu.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelaG Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 What message is this kata trying to impart?I thought this thread was about the Heian Kata's and their order and why. Not where does Channan fall in the big scheme of things. I have noticed that a lot of Shotokan people are touchy about this subject, and I was just trying to shed some light on this. If you want to know more about Channan you should really contact my sensei, or someone within my organization. I am just starting to learn this kata, so I'm not really qualified as of yet to say what this kata is trying to impart. Right now I'm just trying to get the order down and stuff.JohnHey I'm not touchy I'm seriously interested!Thread drift is an occupational hazard, and it still does link back to the original question. Tokonkai Karate-do Instructorhttp://www.karateresource.com Kata, Bunkai, Articles, Reviews, History, Uncovering the Myths, Discussion Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Hey I'm not touchy I'm seriously interested!Okay I talked to my Doshu, and what he said is that the reason we are practicing Channan is because it teaches distancing that the Heian's don't teach. The stances are much shorter, and it brings out all the highlights of the Pinan kata that were lost when the Heian's were instituted, this can be taught in one kata vice 5 katas. That is why we are practicing Channan. JohnP.S. The more I am doing this kata I have to say it doesn't remind me of Kanku at all, more like Nipaipo or another kata like that. The stances are very short and the whole embusen of this kata is only like maybe 6 ft. John McNichols-----------------https://www.katamasters.comhttps://www.saishuryu.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelaG Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Cheers John p.s. I take it your Doshu is Scott Mertz? Tokonkai Karate-do Instructorhttp://www.karateresource.com Kata, Bunkai, Articles, Reviews, History, Uncovering the Myths, Discussion Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I take it your Doshu is Scott Mertz?Yes he is, Mr. Mertz is in charge of my organization. However I mostly train with Cesear Garcia. If you can ever attend one of Doshu Mertz's seminars I would highly recommend it. He's a fantastic instructor, very down to earth and easy to talk to.John John McNichols-----------------https://www.katamasters.comhttps://www.saishuryu.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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