Shotokan Kata system

[Menjo]

Question for any practitioners probably of shotokan schooling or general background in it.

-I've heard that Heian Nidan was once actualy taught first to Shotokan practitoners(not sure exactly when) way, way back. Now I'm almost sure in most dojos it is Heian Shodan, I find this confusing, maybe they switched names...any help?

[shotokanbeginner]

I wish I could help, but to tell the truth I'm not entirely sure. I would like to thank you though for all the kind words you've given me, and also ask which kata is your favorite?

[vertigo]

Question for any practitioners probably of shotokan schooling or general background in it.

-I've heard that Heian Nidan was once actualy taught first to Shotokan practitoners(not sure exactly when) way, way back. Now I'm almost sure in most dojos it is Heian Shodan, I find this confusing, maybe they switched names...any help?

I think I remember hearing this as well - IF I remember right (that's a big if ), Nidan was originally taught first - and Funakoshi later switched the order?

I can't say that I'm positive on this one - but I'm fairly certain... Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Menjo]

I wish I could help, but to tell the truth I'm not entirely sure. I would like to thank you though for all the kind words you've given me, and also ask which kata is your favorite?

Thanks for listening...

My fav kata:

hmmmmmmm, thats really tough. I'd have to go with Bassai Dai for tedious practice. Jion for cool looks , and Heian Godan for concentration.

No real ultimate fav though, I guess I need more practice.

[ncole_91]

Before there was Pinan katas.

There was Pinan Shodan, which is know Heian Nidan, and Pinan Nidan, which is actually Heian Shodan.

Most Shotokan school teach the Heian katas, but some MA schools teach the pinan katas, which are a little different.

[Killer Miller]

I believe ncole is correct - as I recall. Memory not the greatest these days...

- Killer -

[June1]

Yep, Heian Nidan was originally the first kata taught, but they switched it to Heian Shodan because Nidan was a tad too advanced for beginners. Personally, I am thankful for that, since every beginner I've ever known (myself included) has had a heck of a time trying to figure out right from left in katas.

[danbong]

Ian Abernethy agrees that Funakoshi probably switched the order due to relative technical difficulty of performing the 2 katas. Additionally, he has an explanation on why they were originally ordered the way they are. http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/Pinan1.asp The short version is that the pinan progressed through the stages of a fight, from outer range to in closer.

[NidaninNJ]

Before there was Pinan katas.

There was Pinan Shodan, which is know Heian Nidan, and Pinan Nidan, which is actually Heian Shodan.

I second this. Or I guess I third it since Killer already seconded it.

[AngelaG]

There's another hypothesis that the Heian/Pinan series are actually from 2 other older Chinese forms, called Channan. They were split down from Channan Dai and Channan Sho. See how Heian Nidan and Heian Yondan start in a very similar position, and then compare this to the start of other dai/sho pairs. This is pretty much pure hypothesis, however Elmar T. Schmeisser has written a book on it; Channan : Heart of the Heians .