Mikio Yahara Hip movement

[cluelesskarateka]

Hi y'all. This is specifically to any Shotokan practitioners, especially those who've trained with Mikio Yahara. I was reading an article about a course he did in Russia, and there was disscussion about increasing the hip movement in techniques, with a longer/lower Zenkutsu-Dachi and making the Hanmi position of the hips at 90degrees as opposed to 45. Can anyone explain these ideas to me, as it makes sense but i can't understand the necessary stance alterations to make this possible.

Cheers y'all.

[Killer Miller]

Doesn't make sense to me... Two shoulder widths in length long on the stance and 45 degrees on the hips. A longer stance would put too much weight on the rear of the front foot causing an imbalance of the stance. Over extending the 45 degree of the hips is not necessary and I would think you would pull muscles in the process. So, I don't understand their logic. I'd be curious to know their technical explanation for doing this???

- Killer -

[cluelesskarateka]

From what I understand, it's like the transition from Fudo-Dachi to Zenkutsu-Dachi, in that it's more powerful because it allows greater hip movement, meaning the hips can potentially reach a higher speed than they would normally, thus adding power to the technique. How they do this remaining in front stance without corrupting it badly i don't know.

[NidaninNJ]

Doesn't make sense to me... Two shoulder widths in length long on the stance and 45 degrees on the hips. A longer stance would put too much weight on the rear of the front foot causing an imbalance of the stance. Over extending the 45 degree of the hips is not necessary and I would think you would pull muscles in the process. So, I don't understand their logic. I'd be curious to know their technical explanation for doing this???

- Killer -

Hey. I think this is the first time I'm gonna disagree with Killer. I think 45 degrees is good but more is better as long as it doesn't mess up the stance. The bigger the hip movement the stronger the turning power, right? I don't know about '90 degrees' but let's say 60 or 70 is probably better than 45 if your flexible enough to do it right.

[Killer Miller]

Try this NidaninNJ.

Get into proper Zenkutsu Dachi, meaning front knee bent over the fron toe, feet turned in properly, outside tension on the knees, 1 shoulder width wide, and two shoulder widths in length. Turn your hips to the front where the belt knot is point to the front. Now, without looking at the belt knot, turn rotate your hips to the side where you comfortably stop (lock into position) and your knees, feet, and legs retain the exact same stance (knee bend), distance and tension. Look at your knot and you will see that it is at the 45 degree position.

Now if you rotate further than the 45 degree position, you will feel excessive tension in the knees and they will either start to turn inward or the muscles, tendons will start to feel strained. In proper stance the hips will lock in naturally at the 45 degree position and no further.

I bet that many will say that if you let the knee come inward, you can rotate more for more force. Wrong... At the time of technique execution with hip rotation (note the key words here are "at the time of"), your feet must be planted flat in order to generate the starting speed and energy that will be turned into applied force at the time of kime. So lets say that you are free sparring??? You are getting ready for reverse punch. Your hips are unaturally rotated to the 70 degree position. What has to happen in order to generate the necessary starting speed and energy is to plant your feet, legs, knees into the proper stance and with proper outside tension on your knees. So you now quickly go from the 70 degree position to the 45 degree position due to a correct stance and tension. THIS IS THE TRUE POINT WHERE STARTING SPEED AND ENERGY IS GENERATED IN ORDER TO CONVERT IT TO APPLIED FORCE AT KIME.

So what did you really gain by starting at the 70 degree position? Nothing... All you did was create additional time spent going from the 70 degree, or further, to the 45 degree position where you actually properly start the reverse punch technique. All of the speed, energy and force starts at this point only, not at 46, 60, 70, or 90 degrees.

Its the firm and solid stance and tension that creates the starting speed required for an explosive and powerful reverse punch. When you exceed the 45 degree position, you lose this connection to the ground and required tension to make this happen.

This is my point and confusion as to "why?" they would recommend an extended rotation for more power or speed...

- Killer -

[NidaninNJ]

Try this NidaninNJ.

Get into proper Zenkutsu Dachi, meaning front knee bent over the fron toe, feet turned in properly, outside tension on the knees, 1 shoulder width wide, and two shoulder widths in length. Turn your hips to the front where the belt knot is point to the front. Now, without looking at the belt knot, turn rotate your hips to the side where you comfortably stop (lock into position) and your knees, feet, and legs retain the exact same stance (knee bend), distance and tension. Look at your knot and you will see that it is at the 45 degree position.

I'm not as flexible as some people who can do 75-80 degrees, but I think my hips are at about 60 when I turn them as far as I can without moving my front knee. I see your point but I also see the point of the people who say it should be more than 45. I think it depends on what your body can take and what your trying to accomplish.

[Killer Miller]

Don't turn them as far as you can with additional tension, but only to the point of where the hips smoothly and confortably stop, no further. I think you willl find in this case, it's closer to the 45 degree mark. I too can extend past the 45 degree point, but I will feel excessive tension at that point, and its past where I smoothly stop. This in the point and only point you should stop at.

- Killer -

[NidaninNJ]

Don't turn them as far as you can with additional tension, but only to the point of where the hips smoothly and confortably stop, no further. I think you willl find in this case, it's closer to the 45 degree mark.

Not much. It's still at least 60 degrees, maybe more like 65.

This in the point and only point you should stop at.

Why do you say that?

I think its like the idea of putting your back foot at a 45 degree angle in front stance. Isn't it just what we expect of normal people and not what is the ideal for those who are flexible and strong enough to handle better technique?

[Ilex]

Hi there

i am a member of sensei yahara's organisation KWF, and have trained with him many times. i have visited and trained with him in his dojo in japan for the last three years and believe to have a good understanding of his hip idea.

in KWF karate, there are only two hip posistions, hanmi and gyaku hanmi.

when making hanmi one must turn their hips as far as humanly posible. softening the back leg allows more 'give'. when, for example, making oi-zuki one does not simply keep the hips square, they must push as far as posible into gyaku hanmi.

https://www.kwf.jp video archive dojo training will show you exactly what he is after. demonstrated by shihan yahara himself.

[cluelesskarateka]

Wow!!! Thanks, those videos are fantastic. It's kinda scary how someone that age can move so well, I hope one day I'll be able to make similar claims, unlikely though.

Thanks Y'all, its really helped clarify things.