elbows_and_knees Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 yeah, but the attackers attack pretty much the same way every time... shadowboxing would allow for greater and more varied visualization, as you are moving spontaneously.I can tell you are not a traditional japanese stylist. My comments are not meant that application doesn't need to be practiced because it does and alot to become very good. Application requires your reaction to be second nature.you would be wrong. my first style was korean, my second japanese. I trained under a guy born and rasied in japan. He merely called it "traditional japanese karate". He believed in kata, but believed more in application, so we did a lot of drills and sparring. He knew all of the shotokan katas (he helped me with the katas I was learning from my american instructor) and knew katas of other styles as well, but he only taught taikyoku shodan and sanchin - he thought that those two were most important. I fully understand the need for reaction to be second nature - that applies to ANY style. however, to visualize yourself fighting multiple attackers is, IMO, not the most efficient way to make your technique second nature. sure, the repetition drills it into you, but since there is no real attacker, YOU are setting his timing... there is a fundamental flaw there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekki Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 well, I started doing forms when I first took up karate because I joined a traditional club where we did kata as part of each and every class. I've never trained in a stand-up martial art that did not have forms as an essential part of the training, so I do forms because they're part and parcel of the style(s) I do. And conversely, I choose to stay with styles that emphasize kata because it's one of the most satisfying parts of my practice. I enjoy doing kata the way some people enjoy skating or dancing. "Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world"-Dave Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menjo Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 but since there is no real attacker, YOU are setting his timing... there is a fundamental flaw there.This is just my philosphy, however its what many great martial artists and fighters alike belive in through history so I find it effective and a good reference.I would consider in any combat situation that if you want to dominate your opponent, you should be setting the timing and pace of the situation for yourself and him. This way, you are unpredictable and many other factors will come into play. Regardless if you knew this or not, I felt it was nessacery to send the point out. "Time is what we want most, but what we use worst"William Penn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbows_and_knees Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 but since there is no real attacker, YOU are setting his timing... there is a fundamental flaw there.This is just my philosphy, however its what many great martial artists and fighters alike belive in through history so I find it effective and a good reference.I would consider in any combat situation that if you want to dominate your opponent, you should be setting the timing and pace of the situation for yourself and him. This way, you are unpredictable and many other factors will come into play. Regardless if you knew this or not, I felt it was nessacery to send the point out.I don't disagree with that. you want him to fight your fight. but kata begins with defense - that implies that he attacked you first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElbowTKO Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 yeah, but the attackers attack pretty much the same way every time... shadowboxing would allow for greater and more varied visualization, as you are moving spontaneously.I can tell you are not a traditional japanese stylist. My comments are not meant that application doesn't need to be practiced because it does and alot to become very good. Application requires your reaction to be second nature.I think your application makes your reaction second nature. The more you train realisticly the better you are at handling in a realistic situation. Unless you don't know how to do the moves your doing. "how do Round kick?" You should pratice more untill you have better technique and then apply them. 4 years of improving technique ( 4 years of kata) with very little application is not right. One can spar better from only sparing, than a martial artist that does only kata (if you can even CONSIDER them a martial artist.) Aikido have names for techniques like "heaven and earth."which represents the creation of the universe along with a philosophical meaning.Muay Thai have names for techniques like "closing the lamp", which means "punch him in the eye." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menjo Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 but since there is no real attacker, YOU are setting his timing... there is a fundamental flaw there.This is just my philosphy, however its what many great martial artists and fighters alike belive in through history so I find it effective and a good reference.I would consider in any combat situation that if you want to dominate your opponent, you should be setting the timing and pace of the situation for yourself and him. This way, you are unpredictable and many other factors will come into play. Regardless if you knew this or not, I felt it was nessacery to send the point out.I don't disagree with that. you want him to fight your fight. but kata begins with defense - that implies that he attacked you first.Ok I see now, fair point. "Time is what we want most, but what we use worst"William Penn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Fisher Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I don't disagree with application training it is a must so please don't misunderstand me. Brandon FisherSeijitsu Shin Do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbows_and_knees Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 yeah, I understand that. But what it looks like you're saying is that you are using kata to make your reactions second nature. That's what I disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartialArthur Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Kata is a form of practice and excersize. Like every part of our training, it is useless without the other components. No one should do JUST kata and nothing else, just like you should not do sit-ups only or heavy bag work only.There is great value derived from kata, just as there is great value from the other parts of our training... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Fisher Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 yeah, I understand that. But what it looks like you're saying is that you are using kata to make your reactions second nature. That's what I disagree with.No my Ju jitsu training is what makes my reactions second nature. Brandon FisherSeijitsu Shin Do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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