ATA

[atateen007]

I have read some posts about ATA and I really want to discuss it again. I think there have been some unfair remarks about the American Taekwondo Association. The first one I want to discuss is the McDojo. Yea we all know what a McDojo is. But in a variety of posts I have read how ATA schols are all McDojo's. I teach at 3 different locations in Virginia and they are all owned by the same lady. But we are by far not McDojo's. And in reality most of the ATA schools I know of are not. We teach quality material and yes, we will no-change (fail) students at testing if they cannot meet the requirements. Now in states like Florida and Texas (if your in the ATA you know what I mean) have 15+ schools owned by the same person. But even in my experience with those schools they still teach quality material.

Also I see many remarks about how we have student requirements for higher level balck belts and such. I just want to tell you that many Instructors enjoy not going all the way through the ranks. I personally havent tested in a year, because I have been working on my teaching ability. I could go through the ranks, I have the "student requirement" to, but me like many instructors dont feel it necessary.

I dont want to stir up any fights or such, but will gladly answer any questions and would appreciate comments. Also for those who say "Ill never step in an ATA school", you need to come to my school, I garauntee we will challenge you and you will remember your experience.

[MartialArthur]

Yea we all know what a McDojo is.

No we don't. I have seen so many different opinions about what is a McDojo that I have come to realize that a McDojo is:

"Any school that is not as good, in your opinion, as your own; especially if you've never trained there and have very little real knowledge of it."

A real Mcdojo expert can spot a McDojo by looking at a website or looking through the school's windows. Success is a great indicator of a McDojo. Really good MA instructors should be poor.

[stoneheart]

It's the point sparring only that kills me about the ATA. Just seems weighted too far on the side of safety to me. If you're going to teach a MARTIAL art, it seems to me that you've got to be tested more sternly in the circle. After all, in a street fight, you're not going to have a referree call "Break" for you.

That said, I do like the Songahm forms designed by GM Lee. They definitely highlight that TKD is a kicking art.

[whitematt]

Yea we all know what a McDojo is.

A real Mcdojo expert can spot a McDojo by looking at a website or looking through the school's windows. Success is a great indicator of a McDojo. Really good MA instructors should be poor.

Nice touch of sarcasm. Unfortunately, far too many people are willing to judge a school "McDojo" based on your criteria above.

Matt White

[Altek]

hey im in florida, and i am ITF affiliated, and i see little ATA kids (some under 10) wearing 4th dan black belts. why is that?

[stoneheart]

If that's true, I don't see how the instructor could have promoted those kids with a straight face.

[stoneheart]

luckorskill,

Continuous sparring with a decent amount of contact permitted is beneficial. Point sparring is next to useless unless you want to win some trophies.

[scad]

ok i think i am going to cry. a 4th dan 10 yearold, and all good MA instructors should be poor! , that is the most rediculous thing i have even heard, not only is my master an incredible martial artist, vice president of the Florida Tae Kwon Do Union, tournament directer and rated number 2 int he state, but he has done extremely well with his business. the only reason that some MA instructors may be poor, is perhaps there business hasn't flourished. and alot of instructors don't teach MA fulltime, they have seperate jobs, teaching MA is a hobby or a way to make fast cash.

[stoneheart]

I'm not opposed to someone 14 years or older earning a 1st Dan. Higher dan ranks probably should be reserved until one is at least in one's twenties with the corresponding years of CONTINUOUS practice, and yes, both proficiency and physicial maturity should come into the picture.

I've got real issues with 12 year old kids running around with nidan and sandan ranks. A black belt is a sign of competence in the martial arts. Let's not cheapen that by making it into an attendence ribbon.

[aefibird]

and all good MA instructors should be poor! , that is the most rediculous thing i have even heard, not only is my master an incredible martial artist, vice president of the Florida Tae Kwon Do Union, tournament directer and rated number 2 int he state, but he has done extremely well with his business. the only reason that some MA instructors may be poor, is perhaps there business hasn't flourished. and alot of instructors don't teach MA fulltime, they have seperate jobs, teaching MA is a hobby or a way to make fast cash.

The "all MA instructors should be poor" quote was in jest...I think you need to re-read MartialArthur's post again.

The point was that there are a lot of generalisations abounding in Martial Arts. Some people automatically think a school owner is running a McDojo just because they're earning a bit of cash or actually 'daring' to charge people for instruction.

The thing with "McDojo" is that while it might have once had a realistic meaning, it has basically lost that now. McDojo is far too often applied to schools that another person dislikes, or misunderstands or train in an art that other simply don't like. That's partly the reason why McDojo is a term often applied to Shotokan or TKD clubs, as they are often seen as "inferior" arts or as being "useless" for SD.

As a term to describe another school McDojo is now basically worthless, as so many people bandy it about and apply it to whatever they see that they don't agree with.

for example:

A school that teaches kids and allowes them to get to blackbelt? OOh, that's gotta be a McDojo!

A school that trains in traditional kata/patterns/forms? Definately a McDojo!

A school that DOESN'T train in traditional kata/patterns/forms? Well, that mush be a McDojo!

A school that charges for testing? McDojo all the way!

You see what I mean? The slightest little thing that one school does can have it branded a McDojo by someone else, which is the point MartialArthur was making in an earlier post.