isshin ryu's 1974 black belt hall of fame Gary Alexander

[powerof0ne]

I have to also say that my experience with Isshin Ryu in the PNW(WA state area) isn't too good. From everyone I have talked to that has seen Steve Armstrong black belts in action back in the 60s/70s doesn't have much good things to say about them.

I also train at a school now that had an Isshin Ryu Godan teach when the owner was on business...what happens is as follows: a go kyu female student was doing a type of jam/block in sparring that the isshin ryu godan didn't like and he told her this a few times. What he did was a spinning back fist that dislocated her jaw. The female student is only about 15 and this individual wouldn't go apologize to her or her parents and the reason why is what he told the owner: "I didn't want them to think I was begging for their forgiveness on my knees". If anyone wants to know this individual's name please pm me because I really have no respect for him and hope to spar him some day to return the favor to him that he gave to this female kohai.

Does this mean that I think all Isshin Ryu is crap? no, by no means does it but I think much of it in the PNW/pacific northwest leaves much to be desired. I respect Advincula a lot and how open and honest he is and from what I understand he is a very skilled martial artist. Gary Alexander was obviously one tough competitor in his prime having winning bare knuckle/knockdown competition.

[patusai]

Powerofone

Well said. Every styles has its problems. I know Isshin Ryu has it difficulties and there are concerns but, again, every single style has stuff in the closet.

[isshinryu5toforever]

I would never say IsshinRyu is without it's problems. I know it's full of them. That's what happens when the four people who brought it to America are 19-year-old kids. I haven't had much experience with the IsshinRyu guys in the west. I'll admit that. Most of the people I know are from the Midwest or the East Coast. I have met people from a lot of different styles. I know a couple that teach Tae Kwon Do that are extremely greedy, but I wouldn't assume that all TaeKwonDo sonsaengnim are greedy. I have met Shotokan guys that are arrogant and believe they'll win any fight, even to the extent of challenging other local instructors to less than friendly sparring matches. I know that there is no way all Shotokan sensei are that way. I have also met IsshinRyu instructors that I would never want to learn from, but I know that not all of them are that way. It's just hard for me to swallow that someone would think that all karateka of a style are bad because of one or two men. Or that a style is marginal simply because it isn't hundreds of years old and the punch is different.

[patusai]

I totally agree.

[Unyu Ni]

Well I apologize if you thought I was insulting you. I've met a few good Isshin-ka. I've also met some stubborn imbeciles who refused to acknowledge the science behind why the Isshin thumb on top fist form is dangerous and makes zero biomechanical sense.

I am a yudansha in Shorin Ryu and should have said that Gary Alexander has never impressed me. Then again most people just aren't good at much, MAs included.

[Holland]

I can see both sides of this issue. First of all I am a san-dan in Isshirnyu, but I have been trained in Shito ryu and I am working through toward my shodan in weapons from a teacher that used to be with the old NKJU and now is aligned under a shorinryu shorinkan instructor.

I run my own school, and I do it as a church ministry. I have some very low income students and I only charge ten bucks a month...of which most of that goes to help pay off the gymansium the church lets me use. I have seventy five students (https://www.capfearisshinryu.com) and I am anti political.

I say what I feel and I have often gotten in trouble for it...This past year I was kicked out of the USIKA...if you can call it that. Really I kinda refused to join or make my students join so they revoked my membership...but that is neither here nor there.

There are a ton of really bad Isshinryu tapes out there. I have seen more than a few...Some are expensive, and only contain a kata or two...others have really poor performances etc... It always galls me that people sell these things. An exception to this rule would be the tapes recently released by Harold Mitchum, which were fantastic.

BUT I will say that i love Isshinryu and have met some great Isshinryuists. I kinda resent the comment about Tatuso being the nominal of the shimabuku brothers. I seriously doubt you would hear Eizo say that or even imply it. As for our diluted katas....I guess you have never seen us do kusanku, chinto, seisan or others, as they are very close to the performances found in shorinryu...after all Tatsuo studied with Kyan much longer than his younger brother.

But I digress, I love my style but I am always looking to learn new things. If you want to see how my group does kata you can download katas from my site for free, performed by myself and my black belts. They are not great, and were recorded all in one sitting with very few retakes...but they show the flavor of what we are doing. They can be found at https://www.capefearisshinryu.net our main site is the same but .com.

Anyhow...I enjoyed this thread.

[powerof0ne]

No offense but from what I personally have seen of Isshin Ryu, the kata wasn't as good as a Shito Ryu, shotokan, or shorin ryu stylist. Now, I'm not saying your school/association is like this but the Isshin Ryu stylists I'm talking about were doing kata they had no business doing; meaning I felt they didn't have good enough form to be doing kata such as Chinto(one of my favorites).

Most Isshin Ryu stylists I have met also do more of a "open freestyle tournament" sparring which means they wear foam dipped pads,head gear, feet, etc...and basically are slapping eachother, playing tag, etc..This isn't just specific to Isshin Ryu but isn't the norm for shito ryu, shotokan, goju ryu, etc. However, this is kind of the norm for "Americanized" martial arts.

p.s. I absolutely hate foam dipped sparring gear

[Holland]

I work out at a shitoryu school as well, as my kobudo instructor is a 6th dan in shito ryu. (https://www.classicalmartialarts.org) and I will just have to disagree with you to some extent.

First, we almost never spar with gear. Go to my website and look at the instructor section...on each of them you will see that during their kumite we are sparring hard, and we have on no gear what so ever. What I think you are doing, is taking your knowledge of the one or two isshinryu schools that you have dealt with, which may or may not be the dregs of our style and assuming, incorrectly, that all isshinryuists are the same.

That would be like assuming that since the Tae Kwon do school in my area is a money machine that teaches crap, that all tae kwon do sucks. Well, since Chuck Norris' primary training was in Tae Kwon do, that of course is a ludicrous statement.

Now don't get me wrong, there are some horrible Isshinryu schools out there, I see them every year at our hall of fame tournament...but there are good among the bad. There are also some less than stellar shotokan and shitoryu schools as well...though one of those is certainly not the one I attend.

At the core of it, I love karate...I started in Isshinryu and I am a san-dan...I am training in kobudo and I am learning shitoryu kata as well. My philosophy is simply that there are no bad styles of karate, but just bad instructors...and you can even learn from those.

[powerof0ne]

I'm impressed that you guys don't use foam dipped gear and I wasn't commenting saying you do but I'm almost 100% sure that every Isshin Ryu school here in WA state does. I once trained with a very friendly Shito Ryu dojo owner that was friends with an Isshin Ryu instructor...they would come over to "spar" with us sometimes covered from head to toe in foam dipped gear and trying to slap box or something, I'm still not too sure. I was informed a few times during sparring these brown and black belts that they were considered the "bad boys" of Isshin Ryu like I was supposed to be impressed.

About a year ago or so I was looking for a dojo so bad I considered training under an Isshin Ryu nanadan, and guess what, they used foam dipped gear too.

My comments about kata isn't just specific to Isshin Ryu, I have seen many Chito Ryu stylists that I wasn't too impressed with, as well. Although I think Chito Ryu has good kumite. I think you're the one that commented on the "four 19 y/o" Marines that brought Isshin Ryu back to the USA. I'm aware of what you're talking about..were they really only 19? I know one of the guys was Steve Armstrong(wa), and then you had Don Nagle, right? I forgot the other two names but know they came back with very high rank that they didn't deserve.

p.s. we actually have about 2-3 bad Shito Ryu schools here in WA..here's the "10th dan" that caused it: https://www.stevecurrankarate.com

Curran started shito ryu at the same dojo my father trained at when my father was a blue belt...10th dan...I'll have a McDojo with cheese, please

[isshinryu5toforever]

I would be warry of anyone who would call themselves the "bad boys" of any style. We also spar with no gear. Our rules are more Kyokushin-like. For class, hard contact, but not hard enough to knock out or kill somebody. Most dojos I have been to do spar with gear however. That isn't just Isshinryu though, that's most dojos in general. I don't know if they were 19, but they were extremely young. It's difficult to give that kind of responsibility to anyone that young.