"A question on outside study" furtherance

[kurome]

For those of you who read (or will read) the thread mentioned in the title, what is your opinion on higher ranks (shodan+) studying through books, videos of masters related to system, etc. Let me give some background before I ask the real question.

For those of you that helped me before, my previous screenname was mattys (the account stopped working properly). I am a shodan in Maehara-lineage Okinawa Kenpo Karate- Kobudo (League/Kenburyu). Now, I get very confused when I look at outside sources. Okinawa Kenpo preforms kata very differently from other Shuri lineage te, and within the branches of Okinawa Kenpo there is variance as well. For example, where Odo Sensei would have leaning stances (and I think he only punched twice) in the beginning of Kusanku, Maehara sensei would remain in kiba-dachi and punch three times.

A question that is somewhat unrelated, but corresponds to the previous paragraph (this is aimed at Sauzin in his infinite Kenpo wisdom) would be: why is there so much within Kenpo? Did both Maehara and Odo Sensei not learn from Nakamura Sensei? Another example would be our Ananku. They look completely different from other Shuri Ana(n)ku, and Maehara Sensei's Ananku doesn't even resemble Ananku from any Shuri-te anywhere. Ironically, given the quote in my signature, Maehara Sensei seems to turn in a completely different direction from Odo Sensei at the end of Kusanku. At the end of the kata when you finish the elbow strike, the downward block, and then turn and block, then preform a downward x block (I hope you followed that), does Odo Sensei turn clockwise, or counter clockwise. Maehara Sensei turns counter clockwise, turning only 180 degrees instead of 360 as other branches (such as Shotokan) might. My biggest question, again, directed at Sauzin, is, is this change in kata (if there is one, I have never seen Odo Sensei preform a kata) wrong? Am I, because of how I have been taught and the lineage of my teachers, preforming my kata wrong?

Okay, now back to the question before. I have in my posession myriad books and tapes of Okinawan masters, often founders of their own respective systems, preforming their katas. When I look at the katas, I see variance between the different styles, and I pick and choose the variant that seems to both fit my system and fit to better bunkai. Is this wrong? Also, I have within my posession my Sensei's Sensei's Hanshi preforming all of the kata in our system which was recorded in 1983. My teacher gave this tape to me for supplimental learning, and also because he wants me to know what in his mind is good karate. I have noticed some slight, and some large, variances between the way my Sensei taught me kata, and the way Maehara Hanshi preforms his kata. Which way is (from a technical perspective) right? Lastly, I have sometimes at the request of my teacher learned katas from this video so that I do not need to be taught the steps by him, and then for a few weeks after learning the kata from the video he asks me to go through it and corrects mistakes and explains techniques. Is it wrong that I initially learned this kata from a video and not a person walking me through the steps?

Thanks, I know this was a long post.

[patusai]

Each instructor teaches their own way. it is not for me to question his training. video can assist in training but usually that is after the teaching of the kata has taken place. It is more for review. One of my instructors gave me a film of the kata that I was taught and this was used for review since, in time, we forget. This was used to help me maintain correct kata. From the video I too saw suttle differences in what I thought I originally learned and what was showing on the video. I suppose that there are a few reasons for that. As I said, usually kata is taught first and video (or still photos) were used for review...but this was as far back a 30-35 years ago. Perhaps with technology times and training methods change. I can see the advantage but I can also see a disadvantate too.

I suppose it depends if you are comfortable with this form of learning.

Good luck

[stoneheart]

This is a good discussion. I don't have time to write much, but I would like to observe that kata isn't meant to be a dead catalog of techniques. Kata only comes alive when performed and that means it will be adapted to the idiosyncrasies of the person practicing it. One person will have different limitations and understandings from another. In fact there are accounts of the same old master (I can't recall which Okinawan it was) teaching his students the same kata but differently, since as individuals they had different needs. Here at least is one seed of how the kata began to vary when the students passed along their own versions.

[patusai]

Here at least is one seed of how the kata began to vary when the students passed along their own versions.

I believe that was Chosin Chibana. I am sure that there were others. Tatsuo Shimabuku apparently did the same thing )of course part of that may have been because he refined his kata from earlier teachings to later teachings.

[angus88]

I also think that video should only be used for review, not for instruction. However, even as a review, I think there are still issues that can easily be corrected with the right videotaping style. For instance, if the person who creates the tape will do a voice-over explaining every single move, what the hidden technique is as opposed to what is being shown, explaining exactly what the target is, etc - taking about 30 minutes, with several different angles to explain a 10 minute kata. In other words, leaving nothing to question. Then you could use the tape and not misunderstand something you think you're seeing, or if the change you make goes against the original intention of a specific move, etc.

The problem with that is, the intention of kata and keeping some of the moves vague, is so the karate student can make up his own mind what a particular move is, thus making it come alive for him, and therefore portraying that when exercising it.

The way of instruction is changing, and with the internet people are learning through alternate sources rather than a traditional karate school. Whether this is bad or not, only time will tell. Generally speaking, the way the integrity of a system is kept up is through one person teaching another the way they were taught. Books, videos, and the internet go along with the idea of taking a little from every source and then coming up with what works best for you. The systems themselves are lacking when a student is compelled to do that.

But what if you don't have access to anything other than some clown at the YMCA that attended 2 years of Rex Kwon Do then started teaching his own brand of "realistic mixed fighting American Korean karate?" Or what if you live in BF Wyoming and 100 miles from the nearest karate school?

Ah, too many questions.