Bodybuilder vs MA fighter

[Menjo]

what if the guy with muscles has SKILL?

that's the part I think a lot of people miss. They like to assume that the big guy has no skill, which is not true. I was always into bodybuilding and now I'm into powerlifting. But I've been training MA for years. there are a lot of big guys with skill.

Good point, however If you look at the question, the big guy is assumed to have no skill.

So lets say you are forced in a fight against someone on the streets, would u rather have big muscles but no fighting skills or good fighting skills but normal body posture?

I find often a lot of big guys to develop bad habits that take away from skill. Such as relying on strength to take advantage, this could be considered skill, but that’s all relative.

There are alot who develop a technically weak block, because they never went through the learning process of being forced to change. Posture is another thing big guys often develop bad habits in.They're used to people not knowing how to deal with a large mass and so they continue their strategy, consciously or not. So I think this question its a fair assumption in general.

But I've been training MA for years. there are a lot of big guys with skill.

Chances are, they had good instruction which made them change their natural habits. Plus, these people have already been in martial arts, a big guy who hasn't trained in martial arts...In my belief, develops the use of strength over skill naturaly. Thats why its generaly assumed, sometimes its also exaggerated.

[elbows_and_knees]

I find often a lot of big guys to develop bad habits that take away from skill. Such as relying on strength to take advantage, this could be considered skill, but that’s all relative.

There are alot who develop a technically weak block, because they never went through the learning process of being forced to change. Posture is another thing big guys often develop bad habits in.They're used to people not knowing how to deal with a large mass and so they continue their strategy, consciously or not. So I think this question its a fair assumption in general.

as a bigger, strong guy, I can safely say that this is only partially correct. When you first start to learn something, the natural reaction is to use what has always been working for you instead. consequently, yes, from the get go a bigger guy will try to rely on size and strength. Once he gets used to what he is doing and begins to relax, he will rely on strength less and use it when he has to. For example, I am now perfectly relaxed when I am on the ground, however when I need to power through something, I do. That is an advantage that we have over smaller guys. you can't just power through me if you need to. As far as the bad posture, I have no clue what you are talking about... I've never experienced this, nor have the other big guys I train with.

Chances are, they had good instruction which made them change their natural habits. Plus, these people have already been in martial arts, a big guy who hasn't trained in martial arts...In my belief, develops the use of strength over skill naturaly. Thats why its generaly assumed, sometimes its also exaggerated.

see above.

[elbows_and_knees]

Good point, however If you look at the question, the big guy is assumed to have no skill.

even the original question and assumptions are flawed. he assumes the smaller guy has better stamina. The powerlifters that I train with run 1 - 3 miles at least twice per week. they have better stamina than many smaller guys that I know.

As I've stated in other threads, look what the overweight and under trained tank abbot used to do to people...

[Menjo]

as a bigger, strong guy, I can safely say that this is only partially correct. When you first start to learn something, the natural reaction is to use what has always been working for you instead. consequently, yes, from the get go a bigger guy will try to rely on size and strength. Once he gets used to what he is doing and begins to relax, he will rely on strength less and use it when he has to. For example, I am now perfectly relaxed when I am on the ground, however when I need to power through something, I do. That is an advantage that we have over smaller guys. you can't just power through me if you need to. As far as the bad posture, I have no clue what you are talking about... I've never experienced this, nor have the other big guys I train with.

Well, thats just my own personnal experiance. From what I see, a larger opponent can often get away with not using complete and proper technique(In karate anyway) in lower levels.

The smaller people are completely forced to use proper technique if they want any success.

This is only my karate and some Muay Thai experiance, I'm sure its alot different in what you train.

even the original question and assumptions are flawed. he assumes the smaller guy has better stamina. The powerlifters that I train with run 1 - 3 miles at least twice per week. they have better stamina than many smaller guys that I know.

Maybe, but regardless...the question said the smaller guy had stamina. It would only be fair, since there is always some sort of "flaw" in almost many statements. Eventually, for any progress, some sort of assumption must be made, big or small.

[elbows_and_knees]

Well, thats just my own personnal experiance. From what I see, a larger opponent can often get away with not using complete and proper technique(In karate anyway) in lower levels.

The smaller people are completely forced to use proper technique if they want any success.

This is only my karate and some Muay Thai experiance, I'm sure its alot different in what you train.

I agree. I'm not saying we can't get away with it. I'm saying that once we learn to relax, we learn how not to use it until necessary. Judo is a perfect example of this, as is bjj. If I am throwing you and you successfully resist, I can likely power you through the throw anyway, if I don't wish to change to another attack.

Maybe, but regardless...the question said the smaller guy had stamina. It would only be fair, since there is always some sort of "flaw" in almost many statements. Eventually, for any progress, some sort of assumption must be made, big or small.

two guys, one built, the other small. both have good stamina, big guy is stronger yet untrained, while the smaller guy is weaker, but trains ma. speed is about equal, with a slight advantage going to the smaller guy. No assumption there - it's laid out.

However, I'm not talking about the question specifically, but people in general - MA tend to always assume that when talking about a bigger guy, the bigger buy is slower and untrained.

[UseoForce]

What elbows is saying is absolutely correct. When I first started Combat Hapkido, I wasn't big into weightlifting like I am now. My training partner was/is the bodybuilder type. He used to use pure strength when we grappled, but he has since leanred to relax and use technique, too. However, because he has technique and strength, I have to stay one step ahead of him becuase he has a good 20 pounds or so more of solid muscle than me (and I'm not a weak guy!). He's the toughest guy in my school to grapple with. Technique when you can, strength when you must.

[Menjo]

Well, thats just my own personnal experiance. From what I see, a larger opponent can often get away with not using complete and proper technique(In karate anyway) in lower levels.

The smaller people are completely forced to use proper technique if they want any success.

This is only my karate and some Muay Thai experiance, I'm sure its alot different in what you train.

I agree. I'm not saying we can't get away with it. I'm saying that once we learn to relax, we learn how not to use it until necessary. Judo is a perfect example of this, as is bjj. If I am throwing you and you successfully resist, I can likely power you through the throw anyway, if I don't wish to change to another attack.

Right. But alot of big guys I see dont usually learn this. Yes some,but in my opinion there is a large who doon't. I'm also not favoring little guys, its just I really haven't seen much success on tv or real life with big guys not relying on being large agaisnt at least a somewhat skilled opponent.

I just think its unlikely for a larger guy to have a natural skill to be able to learn to fight natural development. But it does happen, I wont deny that.

two guys, one built, the other small. both have good stamina, big guy is stronger yet untrained, while the smaller guy is weaker, but trains ma. speed is about equal, with a slight advantage going to the smaller guy. No assumption there - it's laid out.

I fell right into that one...I think thats a fair match up. Except one thing: Thats a different topic. In the question presented first, it said what would you rather, being big(gave stats) or being small(gave stats), one would obviously choose who he/she thinks would win, but thats opinion. It never really said that who do you think would win, rather who would you rather be in that situation. Assumptions then don't really matter, because similar as they are, these questions/scenarios, are quite different.

You also said that there is a slight advantage towards the little guy, thats giving away really much choice, as anyone is going to want the upper hand.

[elbows_and_knees]

You also said that there is a slight advantage towards the little guy, thats giving away really much choice, as anyone is going to want the upper hand.

I was saying that the advantage in speed goes to the smaller guy...

[Menjo]

You also said that there is a slight advantage towards the little guy, thats giving away really much choice, as anyone is going to want the upper hand.

I was saying that the advantage in speed goes to the smaller guy...

Ok, I see now.

[LiTtLeDrAgOn]

Shoot...Definaltey fighting skills. I way about 135 on a good day and I've beatin' plenty of big guys.