Recognizing Black Belts of other styles in dojo.

[jaymac]

That is what my original post was about. Shotokan practitioner entering a chinese type martial art and wearing their black belts. I have watched a few classes and they are truly misrepresenting themselves in this school as black belts. The people who have obviously been training from white belt look more advanced than these guys.

[tekki]

I started karate in a JKA Shotokan school and made it to 2nd Kyu (brown belt)after about 3.5 years of training. Then, in order to further my education, I had to relocate to a place where there was no JKA or regular Shotokan. I ended up joining a school that taught its own mix of Shotokan and Goju Ryu. I went in with the attitude that even if I had to start from white belt that it was far, far better than giving up karate altogether. To my suprise, my instructor tested me in as a 1st Kyu (also brown belt) about a month after I joined his school. (I wore no belt for the first month) I stayed there about 5 years, making it to 2nd Dan in that time. whenever, I visited my old school, however, I would wear my brown belt, knowing that I was now being taught to do many of the kata just different enough to matter. Now I have recently relocated again, and have opted to return to the JKA. This meant unequivocally that I have to return to being a 2nd Kyu for now, but I don't care because I have a great instructor at my new club, the classes are so amazing I feel like I've died and gone to karate heaven and when I re-test for shodan later in the year, I will be testing for a rank that will have international recognition. My friends who do karate understand fully why I am taking the apparant demotion, putting what I feel is the best for my personal practice ahead of outward recognition. Ironically, it's my non-karate friends and family who talk as if I have gone mad by "giving up my black belt!"

[knarfster]

I would feel weird wearing abelt from another style, unless it was VERY similar, at least in the kihon (katas can be learned quickkly if the Kihon is similar and sound). When I started back in Karate after a long break, I wore my white belt (under the same sensei) until my Son teste for his frist belt, then i went back to my old belt (6 months as a white), with my sensies approval of course.

[marie curie]

I did four years of Seiei Kan Karate (I was a san kyu or first brown belt), a semester of TKD (haha, I know just a glimpse of the art, but it still happened), a summer of Kung Fu and Tai Chi when I was in China (Haha, again), and two years of Judo, before starting Kajukenbo.

When I started, I began wearing my white belt, but I was "skipped" over yellow belt, and may be once again, since I had the time in for martial arts, and I learned all of the techniques and forms rather quickly. Also, I don't fight like a yellow belt, so that isn't fair to others in competition (I don't fight like a brown belt anymore either, though.... its been a while). I started as white (since I didn't know the forms and stuff specific to this style) but they are promoting me a little more quickly due to the fact that I know all that I'm required up to that point and perform it well.

I think that this form of recognition is good, because I never have a belt that I can't back up for the system.... just maybe one that I got a little faster than expected.

[doubletwist]

Also, I don't fight like a yellow belt, so that isn't fair to others in competition (I don't fight like a brown belt anymore either, though.... its been a while). I started as white (since I didn't know the forms and stuff specific to this style) but they are promoting me a little more quickly due to the fact that I know all that I'm required up to that point and perform it well.

I don't have a lot of experience with competition, but the last comp I went to [i didn't compete sadly ] had a rule that you had to compete in the class that matched the highest belt you had earned. So if you had a brown belt in say TKD, and were taking classes as a yellow belt in Kenpo, even if you went to the competition with the Kenpo school, you'd have to fight as a brown belt.

As for the other posts, I didn't have a problem with people coming in wearing a black belt from another style. The issue I had was with a guy that came in from another school of the same style who had no business having the belt he had. He wore a 2nd degree black belt, but apparrently whatever school he had been going to had handed out belts like candy. I was only an orange belt and felt I could have taken him. I feel that someone like that should be tested and placed accordingly, not just blindly accepted as having the belt he/she *claims* to have.

[congai]

There are many different circumstances to accepting a student's previous rank. If the style was completely different than I would say, start over because I wouldn't even know the basics. If the style was similar, then the student should be reevaluated to a rank that suits their skill. This was what happened to myself, and I agree with what my instructor did. I caught on quickly, and relearned everything including all patterns, knowledge, self defense... of the ranks beneath, in time to test for the next rank as if I had gone to the school from the start.

For a black belt, if they are to keep their rank I would assume that they would know that they have to train hard consistently in order to catch up and understand the new style. Besides, if they join a new style, I assume they are interested in learning and want to train, and with past experience they would be able to catch on easier. In some cases, this might be true, in other cases it's not. And it's quite a shame, not only for the instructor, but the other students who feel pride in their school when someone stops in to watch the class and they notice a "black belt" with skill that would make people wonder what the standard is.

[marie curie]

I don't have a lot of experience with competition, but the last comp I went to [i didn't compete sadly ] had a rule that you had to compete in the class that matched the highest belt you had earned. So if you had a brown belt in say TKD, and were taking classes as a yellow belt in Kenpo, even if you went to the competition with the Kenpo school, you'd have to fight as a brown belt.

My style doesn't have competions, themselves (it's mostly practical self defense and street fighting, so we use elbows, knees, groin shots, and eye gouges- not very tournament freindly), so we fight in open MA tourny's agains Korean and Okanawan and just whoever shows up. Anyway, they don't have that rule (in any that I've gone to) so they trust you to be responsible...... and actually at the last tournament I went to, I wore a green belt, because they'd just throw me into the intermediate division and that really was where I belonged. I actually lost my only match with me having 4 points and she having 3, because (of course) I had two penalties. Silly excessive force penalties.

[Blackbeltblonde]

I honestly think allowing them to wear their earned black belt encourages community among systems. I do not believe one system is the absolute best in anything.. so allowing other black belts to come and add to your system.. or simply learn your system I think is a very good thing to do.

Bottom line though.. They earned it just like you did in your system. Although, I do know black belts that insist on not wearing a belt for a while until they feel comfortable.

~BBB

[jaymac]

I understand your thought blackbeltblonde, but look at it from a business stand point. You have a school with large glass windows so that others could watch from the outside. You do this in order to interest others and hopefully get them to try some classes. Now you are watching 2 or 3 men who have their black belts, you think they are ranked in the style that you are watching, and they are awful. Completely misrepresenting that school. How would you feel as a potential customer. It is obvious they do not know anything about this style. Obviously this instructor must not mind, but now we are hearing feedback at our school from new students about this other school and how they are just handing out black belts, when the truth is these guys earned their black belts somewhere else in a completely different style. Had this MA been similar to what they trained in, I would say OK, but it is completely different. It is actually helping the student increase at our school, so I guess it is good for us, but truthfully, it is hard to keep a dojo open, so I sort of feel for this guy.

[Blackbeltblonde]

I definately hear what you are saying, my dad owns the school I was trained in. And there are times that I would 100% agree hands down. We had a few of those students come in.. we tended to handle each black belt case by case in terms of classes and whatever. But, can we as Martial Artists actually say that we have to be more interested in the person walking by instead of the pushing for the students to bring people?

~BBB