Morgray Posted April 12, 2002 Posted April 12, 2002 Kata maybe a waste of time, but... What style are you talking about? There are several modern Karate styles practicing practical fighting katas (Ashihara, Enshin, Seidokaikan,...), but traditional styles are not teaching anything related to actual combat. In fact I think almost a 75% of kihon is useless in a real fight (I feel generous). Didn't you never ask "Hey, why do I perform this move this way when fighting and that way when doing kata?" Budo Karate must emphasize education but also self defense and realistic training. Something different is a waste of time (and money in some cases!). Regards.
steveking63 Posted April 19, 2002 Posted April 19, 2002 Anyone who says that katas are a waste of time has obviously not taken the time to understand them. Take the time to really explore a kata and examine the many senarios within each one. Ask Russel Stutley if katas are pointless 2nd Dan Black Belt Karate 1st Dan BrithaiCardio Kickboxing Coach and Professional fitness trainer based in Cambridgeshire England
Taikudo-ka Posted April 20, 2002 Posted April 20, 2002 Having re-read this thread I would suggest all the "kata is useless" advocates read the links I posted under "Karates Grappling Methods - Iain Abernethy". In contrast to saying "75%" of a kata is useless, he insists that absolutely nothing is useless. (But it IS often supposed to look that way at a quick glance) Even that opening gesture that crops up with an open hand pushed against/wrapped around a fist has a definite purpose. In constrast to being useless in a real fight, it is actually in the kata that all the true street self defense moves are contained. Iain gave me the most advanced view yet of kata... not a pretty dance for exercise (although it does this well), not just a silly "practise fight" where you dispatch opponents with double punches and head kicks(though it looks cool in movies), but a database of street defense techniques covering the most effective moves of a particular style, application, or just some veteran warriors catalog of favorite, time proven methods. But as you can imagine, these could be fairly complex, so without the key to "extract" the moves and apply them properly, they remain useless or mis-interpreted. KarateForums.com - Sempai
Kobayashi Posted April 21, 2002 Posted April 21, 2002 Kata means shoulder in Japanese... Karate isn't about fighting, it's about self-defense. Kara means open te means hand...
EnvE Posted April 21, 2002 Posted April 21, 2002 Kata is very important... Fighting over the internet is like special olympics...even if you win, you're still a *.
Taokara Posted April 21, 2002 Posted April 21, 2002 Oviously none of you guys know the true purpose of your forms everyone with me Kata is a imaginary fight in which your practice sets and moves. It is by no means the only ways to fight. Kata helps you acheive stances strengthening and speed if you practice it right you should be tired after. Every move in a kata has many breakdowns over the years these breakdowns have been lost and forgotten. So it is not to blaim your master. I am training for myself not anyone else.. to be the best I can be in everything.
SeiDoRyu Posted April 22, 2002 Posted April 22, 2002 yes Isn't that what i said..... well, almost somebody, somewhere has thought up the best way to deal with a set senario. I found out recently that one of the Katas we do (Ishin) was actually created by a former sensei at our club about 10 years ago, because of this we are also taught the reason for the Kata - to deal with a six person attack (two with canes). Obviously you can't use a Kata in a real fight but it prepares you for different situations and the idea of defending against multiple attackers along with everything else people have mentioned - power, speed, meditation, focus etc... Just my opinions, toast me if you want ------------Understanding what you do not understand is far more important than what you think you know.
Ti-Kwon-Leap Posted April 22, 2002 Posted April 22, 2002 I think of forms as a kind of moving meditation. It takes a certain amount of discipline. When done correctly, it builds the neural pathways you need for the effortless execution of techniques. Think of it as practicing musical scales. A football player does not have to run through automobile tires in an actual game, but when he has to fake an opponent out with fancy footwork, he has the skills. The reason kata is still around is mainly to hone technique. To get any benefit out of it you must apply yourself. in boxing they teach footwork and hand combination drills. This is a form of kata. Each sport has a series of exercises. This is all kata. If the forms you are learning in your current martial art don't seem to have any practical use then you might want to study something else. Just keep in mind that no one art has all the answers. Awareness comes from within. Ti-Kwon-Leap"Annoying the ignorant since 1961"
Morgray Posted April 22, 2002 Posted April 22, 2002 Please read the "Martial Chronicles" book written by Henry Plée (10 Dan Karate, 5 dan Judo, the pioneer of Karate in Europe).... About kata and mystifications.
Ti-Kwon-Leap Posted April 22, 2002 Posted April 22, 2002 Morgray, could you elaborate for those of us who do not have that book? Ti-Kwon-Leap"Annoying the ignorant since 1961"
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