Kata is a waste of time

[dafabe]

On 2002-04-09 08:50, Jiggy9 wrote:

 

Or maybe this fighter gets something in his eye just as he begins the fight with the Karate student; and in that instant a powerful punch drives the bone in his nose through his head and he dies on the spot...

 

This is obvious if some one hits there oponent in the right place at the right time they could kill them, this could just as easyly be some guy on the street that knows no martial arts, the point i was trying to make was not that thai boxers are invinsable but rather, limiting your self to one art with the belief that it will make you a complete fighter is stupid,

 

I can understand that Karate is not just about fighting and It is something i respect and and intrested in, but alot of people out there belive that it is some great fighting style that is the ultimate, where it is obviouse that to be a godd fighter you have to fight and make your mind up what works. and makeing an accurate strike to the face like you tlk about is not exactly the easyest thing in the world it would take good fighting skill to know when and where to strike, something that mauy thai concetrates more on than Karate.

 

_________________

 

"perfection, is something we all get closer too with training, but you will never get there and untill you accept this your mind will be limited in what you can achive"

 

- Dave

 

[ This Message was edited by: dafabe on 2002-04-09 09:46 ]

[dafabe]

On 2002-04-09 09:30, Pacificshore wrote:

 

ie multiple friends, weapons(guns, knives,etc.), your level of intoxication, and so on. Just food for thought

 

If you are in the stree and our numbers you are a goner nothing will save you, unless you can run, or scare them off by getting the first hits in and ko ing them or hurting them but alot of people who get in fights would leave till one of you is wasted.

 

thanx for all your views

 

 

[Jiggy9]

"This is obvious if some one hits there oponent in the right place at the right time they could kill them, this could just as easyly be some guy on the street that knows no martial arts, the point i was trying to make was not that thai boxers are invinsable but rather, limiting your self to one art with the belief that it will make you a complete fighter is stupid, "

 

Yea - I totally agree with you, I've always encouraged cross training and do do it myself, and I think it is important to help you become an all round fighter. - I just wanted to point out that even though you may be a strong all round fighter, things may not go youre way in a fight. Or though you may have been trained in a variety of grappling, strike and ground fighting arts; youre mental attitude may prevent you from fighting well. For example - you face up with a huge dude, and too scared to take a hit, youre fear gets the better of you and you dont do what you've been trained to do.

 

I think that the mental aspect in martial arts is at the end of the day much more important then youre physical training. It all boils down to if youre brain can think clearly in pressure situations, if you can overcome youre emotions and play the game as you know it...

 

Sure the training you do in the ring of a specific art can prepare you somewhat for whats really going to happen - but it can only do so much; because like people have said before, fighting in the ring or in a dojo and fighting in the street is very different.

 

Generally speaking, I think there is something about Karate that teaches alot to a person 'mentally'...and you talk about the skill which is required to know when and where to strike - I think it depends alot on the person training.

 

I enjoy kuhmite and spend most my after class hours training with other senior students to improve our timing, reflexes e.t.c Whilst another student always stays behind and practices his Kata - that's his thing...

 

At the end of the day he's much better at me @ excecuting Kata, but I have more honed fight skills. You say that Muay Thai focuses more on the fight aspect, but I think Karate gives you the flexibility to chose to do one or the other... or both ( which would be the smart choice since you benefit from Kata and Sparring).

 

[ This Message was edited by: Jiggy9 on 2002-04-09 11:59 ]

[Prodigy-Child]

I THINK KATA IS USELESS BECAUSE THE STEPPING MOVEMENTS THAT ARE ENTAILED WITH THE PUNCHING AND KICKING ARE NOT PRACTICAL TO WHAT HAPPENS IN A REAL STREET FIGHT

 

in a real fight, people are gonna hit you repeatedly gouge your eyeballs, scratch knee elbow spit in your face and so on..........one hit will not stop them

[redbutt]

If you think Kata is useless, find a different Martial art. Kata teaches you everything you need to know IF you learn what you are doing.. Kata is not something that you do just by running through the moves. Learning a Kata is a multi-step process. I agree that you will not be doing Heian Nidan in a real fight, but the concepts you learned from the Kata will be what get you through it.

 

Are their other ways to learn the techniques? Probably, but Karate has chosen Kata as the teaching method. It works if you understand it, and that takes a LONG time and patience.

 

 

[tigerstyle18]

On 2002-04-09 08:50, Jiggy9 wrote:

 

Or maybe this fighter gets something in his eye just as he begins the fight with the Karate student; and in that instant a powerful punch drives the bone in his nose through his head and he dies on the spot...

 

 

 

I don't know that it is fair to make up those type of scenarios. I could say that a tae bo person luckily jazzercised a punch into a karate guy and killed him. Hypothetical situations are too subjective to base an argument on. I understand your thoughts however.

[chh]

Hey, a karateka would never expect a jumping jack-jumping jack-jab combo in a fight, you just never know about these things.

[SeiDoRyu]

 

 

As far as i know, A Kata is a series of set techniques that are designed specifically to take out xx number of agressors(with and without weapons) in the most effecient and effective way possible, which is exactly what you need to know in a real fight. The timing is critical.

 

It's like practicing a football play or something, so when the time comes you do not have to think about it too much.

 

If the Senseis explain the Kata properly, you should know what situation the kata is for.

in a real fight, people are gonna hit you repeatedly gouge your eyeballs, scratch knee elbow spit in your face and so on..........one hit will not stop them

 

We do Katas that include mawashi & shlto Empi (elbow), Neon Nukite (eye Guage) Hizageri (knee) & Kumade Hizageri + lots of quick-fire techniques and some dirty stuff like tearing their nads off

 

It looks like things haven't changed much in the last 2000 years.

 

One well executed hit in the right place will stop ANYONE. period.

 

A Kingeri would hurt just the same for any man, bodybuilder or 7st geek.

 

Hiato to the right part of the neck will make you pass out in about 2 seconds.

 

Hiraken (flat fist) to the throat/adams apple will kill you.

 

IMO Kata is the most important and most interesting part of the training.

 

I agree, if you don't know why you are doing what you're doing it can seem repetative and pointless, but when you realise that you have just taken out 7 or 8 people....well....

 

[ This Message was edited by: SeiDoRyu on 2002-04-09 21:56 ]

[ramcalgary]

I get tired of eastern martial artists who say that boxing is just fighting and does not promote inner health. It is called the sweet science for a reason. Any bozo can get in a ring and fight toe to toe. It takes skill to learn to hit and not be hit.

 

It takes focus and timing to use the double end bag or the speed bag. Before you say all boxoers are crap in self defence look at why pro kickboxing instituted minimum kick rules.

 

As far as kata goes they serve a great purpose developing balance, strength and concentration. It is not easy to remember the sequences.

 

Karate is a way of life. There is more to life than being able to pound someone one the street. Part of the martial way is to be wise enough to avoid confrontation.

 

The greatest weapon is the mind.

 

 

[omnifinite]

From what I know kata were originally ways of practicing your techniques in secret without giving them away to people who may be watching. In your mind you know what every move may represent... but an onlooker can't decipher what you're doing. Think of each kata as a catalog of techniques. It's as much a mental exercise as physical... and if you've only been taught the physical kata and not what's behind it, then, yes, it can be a waste of time. I think in a lot of schools this has been forgotten.