Kata is a waste of time

[Taikudo-ka]

We also have something called "shoot karate" which is like the shadow boxing you describe. Perhaps you could call it "freestyle kata", but you're expected to go hard with any moves you want, rather than a prearranged kata.

 

"Karate" refers to a huge range of styles, some of which, like kyokushin do fight full contact. Some, like Shotokan, don't. So exactly who's "traditions" are you breaking? The whole history of karate reads as one big list of people "breaking" tradition to do things differently, introduce new methods, new techniques, discard things they didn't understand, etc. That's why there are so many different schools, most originating only last century (20th).

 

A lot of "useless" moves are just moves that aren't understood. A useless move is just one you can't see a use for. But perhaps someone else can. I saw a video where an Isshin master explained the "uselessness" of a certain wide block, and why it was dropped from their system. The same wide block I have seen used successfully to block round-house kicks and other curving attacks.

 

I like to play a game called "what is the nastiest thing I could possibly do with this move?".

 

I do agree that sparring hard with a good partner is the best way to learn. However, I would never make it 100% of training.

 

Tao of JKD is good, but at the end of the day it is really just Bruce's personal note book. It was never meant to be published in the form it was, because it was so far from completion.

 

I suspect that despite all the objective reasons people are posting about kata, most of it comes down to personal like/dislike. Some people seem to take a disliking to anything "kata", and thus are sure kata is useless. Others, such as myself, enjoy kata, and are thus sure it is a useful educational tool and source of information. Each to his own.

 

 

[dafabe]

I know the TAO OF JKD was not complete but the main lesson was ther as it says at the beging of the book and I qoute

 

"Once read theis book will be usefull only for cleaning up mess, as you will see"

 

Evry on is difrent and learing to fight is an individual thing there for following any one predefined style is unlikely to make you the best fighter you can be. You say that karate has been developed with this in mind, perhaps for the person/persons that altered it but not for the individual, I practice Thai boxing and Vale Tudo, and always listen to other peoples ideas to see if I can use them, the great thing about simplifing what you know is that you can learn to do it instinctively, other systems are quite often over complex and when it comes down to fighting it clutters you mind when in a fighting situation.

 

thanx for you information all

 

 

[--]

The essence of Tao of JKD is evolution. Let's use Shotokan as an example:

 

Say there are two people taking Shotokan. A large, pwoerful guy and a small, frail guy. The large, powerful guy will stick with the hard, smashing blocks like Iron Hammer, and will blast straight into his opponent, beating him down with sheer size and power. The smaller guy will prefer to use momentum-based blocks like outside-in and rising block, and will probably use circular stepping and sweeping to finish his enemy.

 

To these two fighters, certain techniques are 'useless'. The big guy might not have any need for the more intricate techniques, preferring to go with all-out power, while the smaller guy might not be able to do such techniques, and will need to rely on the more technical counters and parries.

 

So are any of the Shotokan techniques presented useless. No. It just depends on the fighter. That's what the Tao of JKD is about. And kata is simply an advanced version of line drills. Let's say you have several moves you need to practice over and over. Instead of doing them one at a time, you make a set of them. This helps you learn how to quickly flow from one technique to the next, and how to use your footwork properly. You now have a kata. The kata in practice were created with the intention of teaching a set number of simple techniques, then moving along to the more advanced ones. The best kata for you is the one you create yourself, but you cannot simply deny the ones you are taught, because it's part of the teaching system, set up and tested over decades. Instead of trying to make the world adopt to your level of experience, try the opposite. You might get somewhere.

 

Good luck in all your endeavours.

 

 

[dafabe]

That in my opinion is the best reply, I have had in this topic, instead of going of the handle about my art is better than yours you actually try to explain something, witch makes sense, I still belive that if you want to be a complete fighter you should do more than one art. but what you have said is very true and will make people think.

 

Credit to you and your Beliefs.

 

excuse the spelling )

 

 

[--]

Thank you. Now I feel all special and tingly inside

 

I think the most important thing in any type of education, martial arts included, is understanding the training you are going through. Understand why you are doing kata, what the moves are for, and why you are doing martial arts in the first place. That's the only real way to progress.

 

 

[BlueDragon1981]

I dont think that kata is a waste of time. It is very good exercise. Specially when you rip through 13 of them in a row. Also helps get thechnique in your mind so it becomes natural to do a block and such.

 

I do agree that kata can be a pain in the ..... sometimes. Specially when first learning one.

[shaolinprincess]

I think kata helps you in many differnt ways. One is that it puts together your basics. When sparring you can reffer back to moves in you kata that would work in the situation that you are in. Even though kata takes a long time to master, it is a great thing to know.

[AnonymousOne]

-: You are absolutely correct. In the western world martial artists as a general rule are quite pathetic in their performance of Kata.

 

I just got back from Japan and this was my 2nd trip there and the Japanese are fantastic at Kata and their fighting skills are just as dynamic.

 

If you have mastered Kata, you are a master fighter - period!!

 

 

 

 

[shaolinprincess]

I know people from okinawa, and they are so precise at their kata, it is like perfect, if they mess up, they make it look good.

[--]

Yeah, kata is a wonderful thing. What I like most is that it is not merely a training excercise. It is art. Through your kata, you represent your style in a beautiful and aesthetic way. Western sports are full of age-old and proud traditions, and similarly, Okinawan Karate has its long-running tradition, kata. To practice Karate without kata is like Evel Kenivel jumping without first doing his seven tricks.