Kata is a waste of time

[Bitseach]

...not to mention aesthetically lovely.

 

 

[--]

Of course. Watching Taijiquan and Shotokan forms, you see the stark differences, and subtle similarities, between these two strikingly different arts. Both arts have beautful forms, one gentle and fluid, the other sharp and energetic. Through forms, you can see what your style means, both aesthetically and in application. Just think of forms as scenes from a Jackie Chan movie. Y'know, Jackie vs twenty thugs, and he whups them all. That's basically what a form is, a way to showcase the art's power in a poetic way.

 

 

[jakmak52]

To me it's not a waste of time if it's required to achieve the next belt level, ultimately, the coveted Black Belt...I also find it helps my focus, concentration, discipline in remembering the sequential movements, and my stamina/endurance....plus I can win trophies to stick in the back of my closet

 

Peace

 

http://community.webshots.com/user/jakmak521

[dafabe]

On 2002-06-22 08:53, jakmak52 wrote:

 

To me it's not a waste of time if it's required to achieve the next belt level, ultimately, the coveted Black Belt...I also find it helps my focus, concentration, discipline in remembering the sequential movements, and my stamina/endurance....plus I can win trophies to stick in the back of my

 

This just sums it all up, I would never do something jsut because it is required to get a grading, unless it was actually of use, there are other ways to focus with out doing a silly dance, that are more geared for fighting. the movements you are remembering are mostly unatural and the ones you need to remember are alot easyer as they are almost second nature. (simple) (not likely karate) stamina/endurance try mauy thai or any sport that has alot of cv work. trophies ? trophies of what, the person that can win a fight with so many rules it is not a fight, a karate comp is like a game where you have restrictions and the person that know the game best will win.

 

no offence intended, karate is fantastic, just not for fighting.

 

 

[jakmak52]

On 2002-07-08 06:53, dafabe wrote:

 

This just sums it all up, I would never do something jsut because it is required to get a grading, unless it was actually of use, there are other ways to focus with out doing a silly dance, that are more geared for fighting. the movements you are remembering are mostly unatural and the ones you need to remember are alot easyer as they are almost second nature. (simple) (not likely karate) stamina/endurance try mauy thai or any sport that has alot of cv work. trophies ? trophies of what, the person that can win a fight with so many rules it is not a fight, a karate comp is like a game where you have restrictions and the person that know the game best will win.

 

no offence intended, karate is fantastic, just not for fighting.

 

 

 

I think maybe your splitting hairs here...I was specifically referring to tournament/point fighting.... now if I struck you in the throat (hypothetically),with a ridgehand and crushed your thorax during a street/barroom brawl, which is a move I learned in martial arts class, I would pretty much say that Karate( or any other martial art) was very effective, even in the most extreme no -rules fight.. yes, your absolutely right about the comps being a game, they are...and I enjoy the social aspect more than the actual winning..and as I said before, it's not the actual requirement of the forms/kata, it's also (in addition to) the discipline,endurance and other CV benefits that I enjoy...the movements learned for the kata are not so much unnatural as just not learned...this is just my opinions and views, not meant for you to sum up things for your own conclusions..

 

Peace

 

http://community.webshots.com/user/jakmak521

 

[ This Message was edited by: jakmak52 on 2002-07-08 08:03 ]

[dafabe]

I thought karate was supose to encourage self disipline and control of anger, but yet you sound angry by my coments,

 

In order to calm you down, I will say this, I have the upmost respect all karate ka, for what they do, I just dont think that it is a very affective fighting style, compared to a good combination of other arts. as soon as you stick rigidly to rules (for no real reson) you limit you fighting ability.

 

as fopr the ridge hand thing, a boxer could just as easyly punch you in the neck area, but these are not the sorts of moves that can easyly be done against any decent fighter.

 

also doing karate is unlikely to toughen you up enought to have a good fight with say a thai boxer or the like.

 

 

[--]

Most karateka in this country aren't much in the way of fighters. But take a look at some of the guys in Japan, and how they train. I have personally witnessed a boxer nearly getting killed by a Shotokan guy. Karate and boxing have striking similarities, just not evident until the karateka gets good. Most karateka in this country simply don't, because of insufficient training. I understand that you may have doubts about Karate's effectiveness, but rest assured that it is an excellent, and potentially lethal, fight art, but only when practiced correctly.

 

 

[Taikudo-ka]

Right on Smiley Man from Pakistan.

 

"as soon as you stick rigidly to rules (for no real reson) you limit you fighting ability"

 

What rules? I havn't been training to any rules... someone better report me

 

Non or semi contact free sparring is just one tool to help teach fighting. It's not the be all and end all purpose of karate. Competition is a game, not the aim.

 

If you don't wanna play tag, well, how about Kyokushin full contact kumite?

 

As for kata, well, for all those "kata-less" arts, what do you do if you want to practise, have no partner, and no equipment around to hit? Shadow-box? Hmmm... doesn't sound like a "killer" alternative to kata to me?

 

Apart from punching stuff (heavy bags, speed ball, partner held targets) and sparring with protective equipment, what is the "magic" training that makes all these boxers and muay thai fighters so tough? Is it just plain hard work and natural aggression on the part of the participants?

 

 

[--]

Well said, Taikudoka. A lot of people have never seen Karate as it actually is. Go for a round of Okinawan village boxing, where they have boxing-style bouts using Okinawan Karate. Those make boxing look like a girl's sport.

 

For everyone who doubts Karate: it is a good fighting art, just with very bad publicity. Learn it, and you will be more than able to defend yourself. And if you happen to get into a fight with a good karateka...you have my sympathy.

 

 

[dafabe]

I am not saying it is useless, and when I refer to rules, I have found that breaking tradition, is looked upon as being wrong, even if it seems logical, what makes these thai boxers hard is the fact the spar fight alot, I say once more I respect Karateka but I just feel that it is less about fighting, and more about other things tradition for one, this is not a bad thing but if If you are wanting to learn to fight then read Tao of Jeet kune do, and do not go to a class that claims to teach Jeet kune do. you will only learn some guy interperitation of it.

 

there are many techniques that are usless/not much use in all martial arts. that is reson to discard them enough. why practice something that is no use.

 

and yes I would shadow box witch is alot more dynamic as you are trying to simulate fighting more accurately, I agree that shadow boxing is simalar to kata in alot of ways but shadow boxing not just helps with you technuiques but also puts you in a more realistic fighting situation.

 

how ever practicing with someone is much more helpfull and I concitrate on sparing alot.