loyalty vs. progression

[AirBorne-karateka]

Every one I seek advise from is of the same style even though its different schools. However, they have many different views on the same thing, and none of them like each other. But at what point is it neccesary to seek different views on the same style to broaden your understanding of your style?

[ddavis]

You need to asked yourself why you need to seek other instructors opinions, is something missing in your current training? Do you feel the level of instruction is less than what you expected?

I regularly train with Shotokan-Ryu & Goju-Ryu players. We discuss how we are the same and how we differ, but I do not change my core training. I never tell my Sensei, that's not correct 'cause I trained the other day with instructor X and he does it this way. That's just bad form.

David

[AirBorne-karateka]

its not like that at all. I would never tell my instructor he is wrong. I just want to take in as many aspects of my style, a kata or a move as possible. Its not about whats right or wrong its about learning as much as possible.

[jion]

If an instructor had guts he would encourage people to actually go out and learn. He could benefit from new teachings too. Unless his ego was in the way.

I'm not loyal to any just one instructor or just one book or just one opinion. Just like Funakoshi wasn't. He had more teachers, hell he even encouraged people to learn old katas ("it can't hurt"). He took kata from outside his school and taught them in Japan so people could get a taste of the wealth of techniques there were in Okinawa. It's not cross training or cherry picking together your own new school without learning the essentials. It's just everyone is built differently and every has to go their own way, just like they did when they picked up that flyer and decided that karate school is the one they should check out.

[White Warlock]

Hmm, after he stated you shouldn't question him, did he ever provide an answer to the question you never asked him?

I could care less if someone had been training for a thousand years, if you ask a question, and they tell you not to question, they are misconstrueing your intent. I.e., you're not questioning his validity, your asking him a question. If he doesn't provide an answer through his training, it seems only logical that you would try to obtain an answer from an alternate source.

When i instruct, i don't merely have them mimic my actions, i explain the underlying reasons behind it. If what i am presenting is a prelude or precursor to something else, i indicate such, and leave them to understand that i'm "getting to the point."

With this, at this point i am not at all sure what it is u did, nor altogether confident that you are presenting 'exactly' what your instructor said. Just as he may have misperceptions, so may you. So here are my questions:

1. What additional answers were you seeking?

2. Why were you attempting to seek those additional answers?

3. Whom did you communicate to in your efforts to seek additional answers?

4. By your initial statements, you did present questions, and did obtain answers. What were the answers he provided that you later opted to seek additional answers to?

5. Did you realize that "seeking additional answers" can quite easily be construed as, "i don't believe you, let me ask someone else?"

6a. If you did realize this, then why is it that you did not believe him, or the answers he had provided?

6b. If you did not realize this, does his response somehow take on new meaning?

[Tommy_P]

An instructor like that is insecure and maybe doesn't deserve the high rank he holds (sorry). Any of the styles we practice today were developed the same way, by the founders studying with various teachers.

If he cares about you becoming the best you can be he would encourage you to train and learn about other systems. As an instructor his goal should not be to hold you down and to always be less than him but to help you surpass him. If you become better than him then he has done his job.

If you eat at a friends house and love his moms cooking does your mom feel threatened that she will lose you? Don't be silly, it's just something different.

Maybe you should seek instruction elsewhere. You're paying him and he is providing a service, you don't owe him a thing.

Tommy

[AirBorne-karateka]

I was seeking the underlying reasons for the things we were doing. I am in a profession where it is my job to know all the influential people in my area.

With that said, when asking for my own edifacation about the origins of somthing we were learning, how it developed, and why it was done one way, as opposed to another that seemed more logical he berrated be stating he is the 7th dan kyoshi and above questioning!

A former student of his who broke away from his organization at 3rd dan (now 5th dan) for the same reasons is who I now train under and he encourages learining all aspects not just my way or the highway.

I am very happy with my new dojo.

I just didnt know if this type of behavior was commen, because many in the dojo including myself thought this was very uncalled for!

[yamesu]

Nice words Tommy_P and above posters,

but consider this;

when you step into your instructors dojo, your spending your own valuble money and time to gain sensei's knowledge.

If your sensei wants to teach you about the purity/intensive-depth of the style, then Im sure the last thing he wants to hear is about "how at this other dojo.....such and such.....etc....." or even have his/her teaching contradicted, regardles of its validity.

You train under people to have their knowledge passed onto you, no?

So go to other classes if you want, train in different styles, but try not to brag or go on-and-on about your 'other' places of training, as people(especially instructors) can take this as egotism, and may get offended.

IMHO, just keep attending classes and gaining knowledge.

Knowledge is power, but the most powerful thing a person can do with knowledge is pass it on.

As previously noted;

there are no stupid questions, if a question cannot be answered by one person, then surely it can be answered by another.

This does not however belittle the first person, it is in essence drawing the same water from a different tap.

Just my opinion.

OSU.

[AirBorne-karateka]

I did not begin seeking these answers from other sources until he made it clear that he was the above all authority on kobayoshi-ryu. I have since realized how egotistical he was. I only saught answers to questions he could not answer/would not answer.

[NthDegree]

I 100% agree with Mr. Green.

hope this doesn't change the focus of the intended topic...

I've actually known of a true instance where the hanshi of a homebrewed-ryu (you know, one of those certificate-sokes) threatened a senior student (san-dan) of banning them from the org if they didn't stop posting to a particular forum.

and no, I wasn't the student or the hanshi.

That was the most radical instance I've ever heard in reguards to the gist of the topic.

-(btw, nice to meet everyone. my name is Ed. )