Ninjutsu vs Kung Fu (for self defense)

[ovine king]

i'm NOT (edited: left out this word previously) entirely convinced that the guys who carried out work typically carried by people now known as ninja were considered totally dishonorable.

put it this way,

if an enemy of your shogun was dispatched in a way that kept his name 'clean', isn't that an honorable job?

isn't using all means possible to escape/evade so that you can serve your shogun another day honorable?

if you want to talk about honour in the context of japan in that era and within the samurai classes, first, you have to actually explore just what that honor concerned. in this case, honor itself is just as complicated as the whole ninja/samurai/shinobi thing.

Edited January 6, 2006 by ovine king

[Anbu Alex]

i'm entirely convinced that the guys who carried out work typically carried by people now known as ninja were considered totally dishonorable.

put it this way,

if an enemy of your shogun was dispatched in a way that kept his name 'clean', isn't that an honorable job?

isn't using all means possible to escape/evade so that you can serve your shogun another day honorable?

if you want to talk about honour in the context of japan in that era and within the samurai classes, first, you have to actually explore just what that honor concerned. in this case, honor itself is just as complicated as the whole ninja/samurai/shinobi thing.

Basically

[ovine king]

biiig typo....

it should have read

"i'm not entirely convinced...."

[Anbu Alex]

i thought so had to read it a few times i still agree with ya though

[unknownstyle]

kung fu, ninjitsu is usaully taking someone from behind and killing them(at least by the traditional ways) kung fu was devoloped to provide a way to protect yourself

[White Warlock]

Umm, no. Gaining an advantageous position exists in most arts. Generalizing and saying that 'kung fu' (which, by all accounts is in itself a gross generalization) was developed to provide a way to defend yourself is selling short many of the differing motivations behind the development of the martial arts in China, some of which devised means to perform effective tactics in killing someone from behind. Indeed, it is argued that these same arts were adopted by the shinobi/ninjas/samurai for their own use. If you wish to get critical, much of the Japanese arts were adopted from traveling Chinese, otherwise known as vagabonds.

MFGQ, the ultimate goal should be your own, and thus if you examine the schools available to you in your area and deem what they are instructing, and how they are instructing, to be something that will benefit you, than by all means go study with them. As to what is effective and what is not, as my intro would indicate, i have traveled both routes and have found benefit in a variety of Chinese martial arts, as well as benefited from my studies in ninjutsu. Yet, i cannot reasonably say one is better than the other, for i've encountered both great and false practitioners of Chinese arts and of ninjutsu.

So, my answer to your question is, "Caveat Emptor." Use your own discretion and determine best what you deem as the greatest path to your personal development.

Thanks for reading

[Anbu Alex]

kung fu, ninjitsu is usaully taking someone from behind and killing them(at least by the traditional ways) kung fu was devoloped to provide a way to protect yourself

Thats a common misconception ninjutsu wasnt just about sneaking behind and killing someone it was really a total selfdefense against Samurai and it in its self was more of a philosophy mostly about non violence and like i said before most ninja were samurai and also like i said before Taijutsu is very Kung fu like in its movements cause it has it traces all the way back to Shoalin Kung fu

[striking_cobra]

most arts decend from shaolin kung fu

[Obese_Ninja]

most arts decend from shaolin kung fu

Thats quite a large misconception, what about arts from India, the middle east, Europe, North or South America. I'm pretty sure the Vikings didn't learn to fight from the Shaolin monks. China had a number of indiginous arts long before the founding of the Shaolin temple. As long as there has been large scale conflict there has been the necessity for methods of training that are a cut above your enemies method and there are very few places in the world lucky enough not to experience war.

[striking_cobra]

don't misunderstand me, i didn't say fighting came from shaolin monks, i said most "arts" decend from shaolin kung fu, as in most of the martial arts found in todays society have roots that stretch back to there, in some way or another...the misconception is not in what i wrote, but how you read it.

or perhaps my thoughts weren't specific enough...