WKF - too much contact

[Shrekka]

From a legal point of view, if the rules say light contact to the face, and someone gets their jaw broken, someone might get sued, or prosecuted, or both. The judges should not allow a serious assault to take place if it contravenes the rules.

Yes, I fully agree with this post Fish. The guy who I mentioned with the broken jaw is seeking prosecution aginst the governing body as well as the person who inflicted the broken jaw.

I wonder if this will open a can of worms.

[Shrekka]

If your argument is about consistency, that's always been a problem in tournaments. There is so much politics judging tournaments it's not even worth going, but if you must go, you have to gain the respect of the judges first, which takes time. A lot of people do this by knocking out their opponents in the ring right off the bat knowing they'll get disqualified (at least that's how it used to be done.) Once you've done this for a few tournaments, the judges might start taking you seriously.

It's a stupid thing to have to do, but that's kind of the way it's always been. But this might also be a factor os why there's so few "open" tournaments nowadays too. Anyway, the whole tournament scene is so bad now it's barely worth talking about.

While in the national team when I was younger, the national coach told us to go out and hit our opponent hard. If the referee scored our point, then hit the guy harder until you are penalised, and therefor you can tell how much contact that particular referee will allow. I was appalled at this, at the lack of respect to your opponent, the referee and myself.

As you said Angus, it is the lack of consistency that irks me. Hitting somebody shouldn't be the way to tell if you are making too much contact.

[Kumite988]

Shrekka at what WKF tournament did this incident occur? Just curious...

[Shrekka]

Shrekka at what WKF tournament did this incident occur? Just curious...

The broken jaw?

At the Australian National Championships (AKF -Australian Karate Federation) about 2 months ago.

[Dragn]

A karateka is trying to sue his opponent for breaking his jaw in a tournament?

Thats so rediculous I just dont know what to say. What has happened to real Karate?

[Shrekka]

A karateka is trying to sue his opponent for breaking his jaw in a tournament?

Thats so rediculous I just dont know what to say. What has happened to real Karate?

WKF comps are about winning, not beating the snot out of the opponent.

[jperk1966]

In the old AKA and USKA circuits it was common for for competitors to have broken noses, cracked ribs or other injuries. I was a common thing and competitors knew what they were up against. We knew when we put on that Black Belt and stepped across the line we better be ready to act like Black Belts.

These tournaments today are a game of tag. There is no real martial arts to it. What we have now is gymnast acting like martial artist. I say Keep Going WKF!!! At least we won't have to see the wannabe's at the WKF tournaments!

[Killer Miller]

To clear up a misconception about tournament contact...

There is a BIG difference between intentional body contact for the intent to impose harm on your oponent, and contact caused by inexperience of your oponent. What does this mean?

1. If your oponent charges you and just slams a punch, this would be an intentional act to commit harm and would be warned or disqualified.

2. If you execute good technique and speed with an intended safe "focal point" of attack, and your oponent is less experienced or not as in good of shape, wavers, moves out of position at the time you have already committed your punch execution, gets his nose broke in the process, this would be allowed without penalty. This was the fault of the person getting hit for either not blocking properly, or being not experienced enough to maintain proper stability to avoid moving your body into a dangerous position to allow harm to come to you.

Can there be a fine line between the two above scenarios? Yes... But that's what experienced judges look for when they make their decision as to wether it was a violation or not. I have hurt oponents in the past with scenario #2 - none of these injuries were my fault. Of course I felt bad about what happened, but I never felt guilty that it was my fault. I can honestly say that I have never been guilty of scenario #1.

Here's the justification of the injury. When you commit to a technique, you instinctively determine a focal point for your attack that is within 1/2 inch or very light contact. When you commit to a technique, you contract all body muscles and the time it takes to go from relaxed point "A" to focal point "B" is a fraction of a second. Once you commit to your focal point, there is no turning back on technique or stopping once you have generated the starting action speed and contracting to convert that speed into energy and force. If your oponent moves in just "one" inch, he/she if definately going to get hurt. This is totally your oponent's fault and they should know to definately not move forward, leave themselves wide open for attack, and to not make an attempt to properly block the attack. Also, this typically occurs with a well trained and experienced karate-ka against a less experienced karate-ka. This is also one of the efforts to standardize karate in order to minimize injuries like this from occuring. You always get some brown belt, or a newbie black belt that thinks they can effectively compete with a vertran black belt. It doesn't work and they are bound to get hurt at one point.

So as you can see, I have a totally different opinion on this subject than most from a tournament perspective.

Your's truly,

- Killer Miller -

[shogeri]

The tournaments here in the okc/texas/missouri/kansas/arkansas area, are not even close to either one of your examples killer.

They are the stereotype that people think of. They take what the less contact example you spoke of and water it down even more.

Just as other things are ~ here in the bible belt ~ the heart of america...lol

Whether you do less contact, sport contact, or full contact, the point is the same, accidents occur, and you should go in expecting to get hit, while doing your best not to...

Later!

[Enshin Karate]

In our last tournament, one fighter had to have plastic surgery on his nose when he took a mowashi and the shin connected. He is back to fighting in this years tournament. I do not understand why there is compitition to where no or light contact is allowed. I understand that people get in MA for different reasons, but why not stick to kata tournaments if you do not like contact.

That is also why we request a video or discussion with their sensei before they are even considered for our Sabaki tournament. And alot of paper with a waiver and proof of health insurance.