Body Hardening

[Ripper]

Body hardening is the last thing you have to worry about.

The only hardening you need is when you're sparring. The brooses you get when sparring and deal with that is good enough.

Please don't start hitting wood (or other surfaces) every day or other crap people sometimes come up with.

Not even Makiwara's? O.O

No, not even makiwara's! If you do this on a regular basis, you might get injuries that will last the rest of your live. Is that the risk you are willing to take?

[Ripper]

Usually to harden areas of your body you need to subject them to moderate force to give them the chance to get used to intermediate impact.

The question here should be not how to harden your body but: is it necessary to harden your body.

I think not. Why would you need to do that? Look at the risks I mentioned in my previous post.

Furthermore you won't get better in your sport, just because your knuckles are harder. It's much better to focus your training on your techniques and tactics.

[Superfoot]

I feel body conditioning is essential to getting better in a sport, especially combative. One of the things I have noticed studying the martial arts is that many people are reluctant to try certain maneuveurs because they fear getting hurt on the counterattack. As a result, they attack from a relatively closed position, which inhibits the proper delivery of the technique. I feel if you are training for your sport, you should focus on your techniques, tactics as well as your conditioning and stamina.

Also, toughening up your striking surfaces, it can be argued, can help you get better at your sport as you are LESS likely to suffer injuries. Striking with the shin may hurt a great amount, but conditioning them with various methods to a point where pain tolerance is increased can increase a practitioners confidence in the execution of proper technique, as they do not have to worry about the pain they will feel afterwards. Gaining injuries on a makiwara is possible, but in my experience, only if you perform the techniques incorrectly, such as keeping a bent wrist whilst punching, or punching excessively hard. In my opinion, the makiwara is best used for toughening up the hand and feet striking surfaces. It is items like the Heavy Bag and Thai Pads that can be used for impact training.

[Ripper]

One of the things I have noticed studying the martial arts is that many people are reluctant to try certain maneuveurs because they fear getting hurt on the counterattack.

As you say it yourself; it is the fear people have. It helps more to help those people to deal with their fear. So instead of conditioning their bodies, those people should condition their mind. That's much more effective.

Striking with the shin may hurt a great amount, but conditioning them with various methods to a point where pain tolerance is increased can increase a practitioners confidence in the execution of proper technique, as they do not have to worry about the pain they will feel afterwards.

Maybe you can get a higher level of tolerance, but you will not ever reach a point where you don't have to worry at all about the pain. That's not healthy either. Again, it's better to deal with the fear people have.

[Superfoot]

Yes, helping train the mind to develop toughness is an excellent idea. However, everyone has different coping strategies. A more objective method that many people can perform is the use of physical conditioning in addition to training the mind. Of course, this may very well be down to individual differences too, one might argue.

The conditioning of the body helps eliminate the fear of hurting onself. It also strengthens the bones to prevent injury. In my experience, there is a point where you never have to worry about the pain. Of course, you may still feel the pain when you get hit in the abdominal muscles, as an example. But as a result of conditioning, which is a habituative process, one may still remain standing, thinking of the experienced pain as a feeling rather than a hinderance.

Of course, a person may train themselves mentally never to fear pain, as you have said, and continue fight with zeal. But what if their physical body cannot match the enthusiasm with which they fight? What if their body has not been conditioned properly? The result is an athlete who fights well, but does not have the body that is capable of absorbing punishment. The result is a damaged body, which itself is counter-productive to health. Of course, I speak from my own experiences from training and sparring, which may very well differ from your own experiences in the system of Shotokan.

Thanx for replying.

Superfoot.

[Ripper]

Of course, a person may train themselves mentally never to fear pain, as you have said, and continue fight with zeal. But what if their physical body cannot match the enthusiasm with which they fight? What if their body has not been conditioned properly? The result is an athlete who fights well, but does not have the body that is capable of absorbing punishment. The result is a damaged body, which itself is counter-productive to health.

The short answer is; I can turn your question round. What if their mental state does not match their though body?

Of course, I speak from my own experiences from training and sparring, which may very well differ from your own experiences in the system of Shotokan.

You also do boxing. A lot of punches in boxing go to your head. How do you condition your head? Are you hitting your chin to a concrete wall? I think not. Still, you (and others) keep on boxing. Why? Because you learned to deal with your fear and focussed on your techniques and tactics. Not because you conditioned your head (physically).

[Superfoot]

If the mental state does not match the tough body? Well, thats half of the reason we body condition. Sometimes we are not in the frame of mind to defend every punch or kick or knee or elbow. Often, you will never be able to defend against every strike that is thrown at you. So at these times we can only rely on our toughess. But what if we are lacking in body conditioning? Well, I would assume we would crumble under the force of even what some might consider minimal impact. This is why body conditioning is important.

Sometimes you might not have the opportunity to defend a strike. And sure, some might say, "well train your techniques and tactics, so you never get into that situation". But why take the risk? Body conditioning is precautionary. It may very well occur that you will fall victim to an unseen blow. Certain areas are hard to condition, such as the eyes and groin, which is why it is vital to spend more time protecting these vital areas, by keeping your guard up, and your knees ready.

In boxing, we are able continue to keep on boxing because we condition our body so we can spend more time protecting our head. How do we condition our head? We do not bang our heads or chins on concrete, but we strengthen our neck and shoudlers using a weight with a headbrace, so that any shocks that impact on the head are easily transferred down the now-conditioned thick neck muscles. Also, having a stronger neck also reduced the chance of having your head twist violently when being hit on the jaw, thus preventing you from being "dizzied" as such.

A lot of punches in boxing do go to the head, every boxer knows that, so as a result they keep their guard high. To get an opponent to lower their guard, you must divert their attention away from their head by throwing body shots, and dropping down to give the impression that you want to really start targeting the body. After a while, the expected result is for the opponent opponent to lower their focus on a region (the body) which they feel they need to defend. This again is where body conditioning comes into play. They are strong enough to withstand the blows that may fall upon them when they are unable to weave or dodge, rather than flail their arms and open their guard to reveal an unprotected head.

[kivikala]

What seems like long ago, in a galaxy far away, a rag tag bunch of karate-ka were asked to do a demo of Gojuryu Sanchin kata at a small inter-dojo tournament. Since none of the other participates were familiar with Goju Sanchin these rag tag karate-ka decided to show off some of the training involved. Anyone familiar with Sanchin kata knows a slow moving breathing kata that is under 20 moves is as exciting as watching grass grow. So while the one of the karate-ka performed the kata the other would routinely break sticks about the size of 2x2s on the others body, arms and legs. The net result, the cost of the wood, about $10, the absolute dead silence from the audience, pricelesss.

This could only be done, by slow steady de-sensitizing of the skin and profound concentration within the kata. There is no trick, it take long hard work and willingness to sacrifice some short term sensitivity to touch. It is painful, it would be a lie to deny that. But the training is to be stoic about the whole thing and show no pain, no emotion whatsoever. It's not fun and was never meant to be. It also was never meant as long term daily abuse either. It is some thing you learn from and gives you inner strength to draw from when ever you need it. But in the end, I believe just proper Sanchin training will achieve this without the need of harsh and potentially harmful methods. But then again you don't know for sure until some whacks you with that stick.

[shogeri]

Best to worry about diet, exercise, flexibility, and fighting skill, along with the basic foundation of martial art technique, than to concern one's self with hardening techniques.

Such things were taught during different times, and withing a toally different culture than most would experience during these modern times.

With any you do, I wish you the best!

Edited December 19, 2005 by shogeri

[angus88]

Tradition and history tells us that a "hardened" body can withstand more body shots than someone with a "soft" body. Karate practitioners have been conditioning their minds and body for as long as there have been martial arts. Why would that suddenly become irrelevant?

Ripper's point of no reason for body conditioning is correct in terms of modern day karate, since it has more to do with light to non-contact karate as sport doing, at most, point sparring. However, if you are taking full-contact (as much as that can mean these days) karate and view it as a way of life, etc. you're better to do it like the old masters did it, within reason of course. Not too many people have the time to train for 5 hours or longer a day, but the philosophies are basically the same.

I believe that if you are pre-disposed to getting arthritis, you'll get arthritis. There's been enough non-karate old people that have gotten arthritis to prove that. Consequently there's been enough karate people that grew old without arthritis to prove that hitting a makiwara half your life will not doom you to health problems. No more than any other physical activity. You hit the makiwara because you want good-sized knuckles that can deliver a powerful strike without breaking your own hand. You condition the rest of your body because when you fight, you know you're going to get hit.

Superfoot is exactly right about the "fear" element. I don't care what anybody says, there has to be a reason people get over their fears. It doesn't just happen. A kid learns that getting his wind taken is no big deal once his wind is taken. While you're conditioning your body, your mind gets over the fear. Sparring becomes another way of conditioning your body. You take enough punches or kicks to the ribs, your body becomes conditioned to take them. They hurt less. Your face is the same way.

And all that stuff about shime during Sanchin - many Goju schools still practice this in the traditional way - with hands, not 2X4's! This tests your technique. Because, like sparring, you should be able to demonstrate technique with the knowledge that you will get hit. That's what body conditioning is all about.