When a kid goes too far

[AikiGuy]

I would like some feedback on a situation I had in my class. I used to teach a kids class (6-12 y.o.) and I had a promising student who loved sparring. Since they were all quite young, we only did touch/point sparring. I always emphasized the no-contact rule and even warned them that there would be consequences if they went too hard. I always do this with kids since they blank out in the heat of the moment and forget the rules. Also they sometimes want to show off which makes them want to be more aggressive.

During a sparring match, this kid jumped up, faked a kick, grabbed his opponents head and held it all the way down, and slammed it into the wood floor. The opponent was bleeding and crying. Both kids were 8 years old.

I just about lost it. I yelled at him and stopped the match. I made the kid do pushups until he couldn't do any more and was really struggling at the end. He never returned to class after that day. I felt bad afterward for yelling and also wondered if I was too hard on him.

I have heard other instructors' disciplinary actions for exteme contact (with injury) and some go farther than mine. Examples are: DQ and losing the match, sitting out the rest of the class, contact sparring with a higher rank, sparring with the instructor.

I thought my rule was somewhere in the middle. So do you think the consequences were reasonable? What would you have done?

[jperk1966]

I have had similar situations in my classes before. Your reaction was not too harsh. Our responsibilities as instructors is not just to teach but to protect our students too. I believe I would acted the same way. I have suspended students for 2 weeks, made them do puch ups, revoked sparring priviledges and made them clean the dojo. It depends on the severity of the action. I have even kicked students out of class permanently.

I think you did the right thing.

[shogeri]

I would have had a talk, suspended him, and told him to write a letter of apology to both the school, and the person he hurt.

If they are really young, I would have let the parents know.

So far as the push ups go or the yelling, that's just a personal call, and you did what you felt was best at the time.

Live and learn, for without learning we don't live.

Take care!

[Gen_Tora]

I don't teach anyone below 13 for that reason, but did you talk to him afterwards & explain things? Did you call his parents & tell them what he did & recommend thet they talk to him about it?

Otherwise whoopy you yelled, I got yelled at as a kid, my mom still yells at me & I'm 25 now. At best you scared him, at worst you scared him & he didn't understand the full consiquences of his actions which can lead to bigger issues.

[angus88]

During a sparring match, this kid jumped up, faked a kick, grabbed his opponents head and held it all the way down, and slammed it into the wood floor. The opponent was bleeding and crying. Both kids were 8 years old.

That kid's got serious issues if he's prone to doing something like that in a controlled environment. If I had've seen that, (I would like to think that) I would've immediately taken him into the office - no punishment, no yelling, but immediate dismissal from the school. I would've explained to him and his parents exactly why and then he would've been gone. Then for damage control I'd pull the injured kid in the office next and explain to him that something like never should've happened and play it by ear after that. The kid's going to have to deal with psychotics in his life, but he shouldn't have to deal with that in the dojo.

It's a good question though - one that I'm a little surprised doesn't come up with more often. At our school we sometimes get kids with emotional problems that their parents think karate can fix. Sometimes they're right and karate really helps them, but if the kid is that far gone, he'd be nothing but a hindrance to the rest of the class. It's not worth it to your school to lose all your students because of one student.

[Belasko]

I would say that you handled it very well with the exception of 2 points.

1) yelling is probly a bit overboard. It can send the message that you are losing control yourself (or so I'm told =). Otherwise it was completely appropriate. It got the kids attention and brought the situation back under control.

2) You didn't talk to the child after the punishment so that they knew why they had been punished and why the behavior was unacceptable, whether on purpose or in the heat of the moment. For a first time offense (as this sounds to be) expulsion would be overdoing it. However if it were to happen again or was a repeat thing expulsion would be highly reasonable, if not preferable.

[angus88]

For a first time offense (as this sounds to be) expulsion would be overdoing it. However if it were to happen again or was a repeat thing expulsion would be highly reasonable, if not preferable.

There's a big difference between an offense like accidental face contact (assuming your 8-year olds aren't allowed to do face contact) and slamming somebody's head to the floor. And maybe it just sounds worse than it really was, but it sounds pretty bad.

I guess the point is, none of us would know exactly what we'd do unless we were right there and saw it played out in front of us and had to make that decision right there on the spot. But really good food for thought AikiGuy - it could happen to anybody running a class.

[AikiGuy]

Thanks everyone for the input. Some points of clarification since some have asked:

The kid in question usually seems like a nice boy and pays attention as much as any 8 year old (which isn't much). He has taken TKD a little before coming to my Karate class and seems quite proud of that. I think he just likes to show off a bit. I don't really mind that except when it becomes dangerous.

I agree I should probably not have yelled at him but it was such a shock to see that, I guess I lost my temper a bit since "no-contact" is the rule I stress more than any other in class. I talked briefly to him after administering his punishment. And I talked to his parents after class hoping they would understand the purpose for making a big issue out of this. I hoped they would talk further with him at home and return the following week but he did not.

I appreciate everyone's opinions and suggestions. Keep them coming if you have any more since I am still teaching kids.

[DragonMike]

I think that you did the right thing. You need to set the tone that that type of behavior will not be tollerated. I think you should have talked to him about whyhe was being punished.

[Aodhan]

It's really hard at that age. I agree that it was a horrible thing to do, but he may not associate the yelling and the pushup with his actions yet. (Kind of like rubbing a dogs nose in his mistake on the floor, he doesn't get it.)

I would have had the agressor go sit out, and tended to the wounded boy. I would have then talked with the agressor and his parents, and explain why I was suspending/dismissing him from the school. I would also talk with the parents of the wounded child and followed up with his recovery.

Although I haven't had this happen, I might just burst out and yell at a student as well if that happened.

Aodhan