Chi Knockouts?

[tufrthanu]

I recently saw a program on Discovery channel or National Geographic channel I'm not sure which, in which the two scientists looked into chi knockouts. Now wally jay who I respect very much says he now beleives in George Dillmans system. On the show they had Leon Jay, wally's son, try to knock the scientist out with a no touch chi knockout. He failed. The scientists believe the knockouts operate under the Faith Healer concept. You believe it works therefore it does. Then they had George Dillman on to comment. He said well the scientist could have had his tongue in the wrong position. He also said that alternating your big toes up and down could cause a no touch knockout to fail. My question is is a system which can be foiled as easily as moving your big toe valid as a reliable self defense system?

[HongKongFooey]

I watched the same program. Dillman really looked like a fool when he stated to have moved an entire line of people at Starbuck's. It's funny how only Dillman's students can be knocked out by him. While Dillman's base system of Ryukyu Kempo is sound and practical, the chi blast nonsense is just that...nonsense. Too much Street Fighter and Dragon Ball Z. Just wait until Dillman starts to say KAMEHAMEHA!!

HKF

[shogeri]

Dillman is NOT the expert in this case. LOL

He is a spokes person for all martial artists to make use of kata in a different manner.

That is his purpose. He is NO pressure point fighting expert.

If I struck you on the temple, followed by several other key places on the brain and body, rapidly and in an EXPLOSIVE way, then you would go down.

But anyone can do this.

It is not about FAITH.

It is about applying the correct amount of explosive striking power to the correct region of the body.

If a person doesn't want to be knocked out, then typically, regardless of qi, they will not be.

Qi is real. It is simply energy.

Pressure points are real, but in terms of western practice, they are still misunderstood.

One doesn't softly strike a point. One doesn't hit a point with minimum power.

One builds up their own internal power, and is relaxed, so that the arm muscles do not stop the whole body from striking those points.

[Gen_Tora]

I've had Grandmaster Yamashiro throw he into a wall while sparring. To several people it was magic or ki energy power. A few people misunderstood his comment about hypnotis. He basicly did hypnotis me into throwing myself, which is true. Bur it wasn't like when I count to three you will think you are a duck. It was more like making mt mind think the distance was shorter via slight of hand fients & I off balanced myself following his movements.

I think the concept of a chi/ki/jing knock out is the same thing. I convense my opponent to belive I can focus my energy. Then use deep power to effect various anatomical targets.

Those who understand physics will know what I'm saying in more detail but here is the basic idea. energy is tranfered via to types of penetradion, in MA terms a snap & a thrust.

A thrust directs force through a target (deep power), this energy breaks down along a linear path into the subject. A snap collides with the subject causing the energy to break down almost instantly on contact with the subject. Now since the human body is 70% water it behaves like water. Water carries energy until the energy breaks down, the only way to see how this would take effect is to strike a water bag & have equiptment to monitor how the fluids reacts.

Basic idea is this, a use a couple of deep power strikes, their is little to no surface damage but their is internal injury. Now claim, chi power caused a deep tissue bruise to surface on the skin & become even more dangerous as master of chi strikes. You tell a person enough times you can knock them out with chi power & give them alittle deep power strikes they belive you. Then after a while after a while a little proof & allot of assuption you have a master of chi knock outs.

Really simple in concept, same principle used by faith heals. You belive you are heal their for you are, all I have to do is tap or strike a pressure point to relive pain & your faith does the rest. It's amazing how just thinking can effect your physical state.

[tufrthanu]

Hmm very interesting replies Shogeri and Tora, thanks. And Lol HKF. I had some of those same feelings myself. But it's good to ask of independent sources who have had it done.

[Sensei Rick]

hate to tell ya all this, but your kinda wrong. I saw my sensei knocked out by dillman. He too, was a non believer. A good friend of ours, Tony hughs, hired dillman for the seminar. He is too, a nonbeliever. He tells the story quite funnily. He is standing in front of dillman, then he got tapped, lightly by dillman on different point of his body. He says he then pointed his finger at Dillman and said "Ha, you're a phony, I knew this stuff didn't work." He then looked down at the ground and saw himself on the ground, being revived by dillman and others. Then his head was back in his own body, and he didn't know where he was, or who he was for about ten minutes. The whoe time that he thought that he was talking, telling the man he was a phoney, he was really lying knocked out on the ground. I've known my sensei for over 22 years, he was really knocked out. he was knocked out by a touch on his head, his wrist and i think a tap on his instep. It was freaking strange. I was very ill at the time and didn't "volunteer". Dillmans knockout are real tho. I didn't see this program, and haven't heard of him NOT touching someone to knock them out. Go see dillman yourself If he comes to your town, make sure your on a mat!!!!

[elbows_and_knees]

If I struck you on the temple, followed by several other key places on the brain and body, rapidly and in an EXPLOSIVE way, then you would go down.

But anyone can do this.

That is part of the problem. Pressure point striking requires immense precission and/or a combination of points to be hit. with the former, it takes a lot of training to be able to hit points so precisely. With the latter, not only do you have to hit them, but you have to do it before your opponents reacts. Pressure point fighting, though existant and real is not at all reliable for self defense. Now, that is not to say that there aren't points that can't be hit. There is a huge bundle of nerves in the jaw. that is part of the reason people get KOed when they are hit there. Larger points like this are perfect for hitting, but I wouldn't base my whole strategy on pressure points.

It is about applying the correct amount of explosive striking power to the correct region of the body.

If a person doesn't want to be knocked out, then typically, regardless of qi, they will not be.

That is the other thing. It's not like you can tap someone and expect them to fall.

Qi is real. It is simply energy.

Possibly. Looking at it from a schientific standpoint, if it can't be measured, then it's probably not real. qi is defined as a bioelectricity, and even the definition of what 'bioelectricity' is is still unclear. Now, from a perspective that qi is merely breath, then yes, it's very real.

[shogeri]

Dim Mak, is based upon the striking arts.

Sadly, the term has been so abused, it's best to simply avoid using it.

The Martial Arts are not about being touchy feely.

We do not always have the luxury of going slow or even being specific.

Qi aside, beneath each pressure point region is a bundle of nerves and fibers.

The reason that pressure point 'massage' works better than needles is that with needles, it is too easy to miss the mark, especially if you are not trained in using pressure points.

Some points require more precision than others. Some require more striking force.

That is why sometimes when you rub a 'spot', it sends tingling feelings or perhaps makes you want to hurl cookies or shoots pain somewhere.

I agree that qi is more than just bio-electricity. I have posted much information on this site, as have others.

But regardless, for the maximum results striking to points must be integrated in the system of fighting itself, and not seen as just an alternative or better way of doing something.

With regards to Dillman:

It's called the Dillman Method for reason.

The reason being it's his own way of doing something that has been around for ages. It helps pay his bills as well.

The way he does things isn't quite the same as it's done in the Chinese Internal Arts.

But hey, not everyone's is.

We are different, and have something to contribute I reckon.

Well take care!

[orion82698]

HAHAHA! I saw this. Dilman said that if you don't believe in it, it doesn't work

[Gen_Tora]

I studied Dim Mak & Kosho, I also read Seiko Fujita's Book on Kusho. Which was in part a collective study of Martial Art pressure points, from multiple style. These same points where tested on POWs by a "panel of experts" these experts where basicly Sokes & Shihan of different MA styles. There is/was scientific research done on this subject by the Japanese Government during WW2.

As far as the Dim Mak being a striking are, it's not. There are muscles, tendons & arteies which are grabbed to induce a KO.