enlightenment

[KarateKid7]

does this involve no attachment to anything?

[markusan]

I don't think enlightenment means no attachment to anything, but dropping off attachments is a prerequisite to enlightenment, among other things. From what I can gather, enlightenment is about seeing things around us as they really are, not as stand alone things but as part of an infinite network of cause and effect. The buddhists and yogic tradition use the rainbow as an example. We see the rainbow and because our eyes see it and we are told it's a rainbow we consider it a real thing that exists. On closer examination we realise the rainbow is only light shining through water droplets, there is no thing called rainbow that has its own inherent existence. They say that if you examine the water and the light in turn you will see similar cause and effects and no inherent "thing" as such.

To get to that state one has to rid oneself of all the preconceptions, judgements and assumptions that one has accumulated from birth...and the ones one has inherited. Drop off anger, jealousy, laziness envy etc.

If you applied this to martial arts you would have to abandon any notion that your style is the best style, that there is only one way of doing things, that belts, traditions, clean gis etc are important.

It's quite paradoxical because thinking they are not important is also a type of attachment. So one should be able to wear a clean pressed gi, tie their belt properly and follow a style without being attached to them.

Most improtant is the dropping off of the ego, not in the sense of not being a show off, but dropping the negative parts of ones personality, attitudes, prejudice etc. so that one can see things clearly, not influenced and distorted by one's own baggage.

[KarateKid7]

thanks. that was really insightful. so i wouldn't have to abandon friends etc...sounds silly i know but could it be viewed as showing weakness if you had many relationships.

[Jay]

look at a few buddist books they will explain

[markusan]

but could it be viewed as showing weakness if you had many relationships.

Non-attachment doesn't mean don't have friends. More that the nature of the friendship should be a serving one rather than a dependent one. We can analyse our relationships and judge if they are really two way or essentially self serving.

A self serving relationship is an attachment, in a way you depend on it to define your self.

I think you can judge non attachment in a friendship when you can let that person go and maybe not see them for years, and when they return pick up comfortably where you left off.

Oh... and the path to enlightenment includes letting go of concepts like strength and weakness, they are subjective judgemets and not based in fact..

[KarateKid7]

markusan, your ideas are intriguing. thank you.

[markusan]

They're not original. As Jay suggested have a look at some books on Buddhism, buddhist meditation, zen etc. It is a very different way of thinking to our usual western egocentric version of life. I've just tried a few of the ideas out and they work for me. I don't call myself buddhist though. That would be an attachment.

[Spirit At Choice]

Slightly off topic, but relevent nonetheless: A teacher of mine once observed to me, "You will know you are enlightened when your family thinks you are."

Enlightenment is one of those things you find when you stop looking for it. If your goal is enlightenment, it is bound to elude you. The idea of non-attachment is one that is easy to entrap you in a circular pattern of thinking, because yes you can get attached to non-attachment.

Times to pull back and observe yourself are pretty much any time you have an emotion. All emotions are symptoms of attachment. (Fear is an attachment to health and life, love and hate are attachment to people, etc.) Absolute detachment would mean not caring if you live, die, or ail and not caring if others live, die or ail.

The balance lies in accepting your ego as an inherent part of yourself. Love you ego! It keeps you alive. It allows you to connect to other people. But control your ego-- or at the very least admit when you let it rule you.

To go down this path successfully I think there has to be an embracing of a Higher Power. (I call my Higher Power "God," but that is my truth not the Ultimate Truth.) By accepting that there is a God (or whatever you call your Higher Power), I can live less from Ego and more from Spirit.

Meaning, I believe God meant for me to have an attachment to my children. I embrace that attachment as healthy and good. I am attached to doing my utmost to assure their well being. I feed, clothe, bathe, protect, hug, compliment, praise, admonish, guide and love, love, love them. But I release attachment to their superficial happinesses (e.g. I would not facilitate them switching teachers just because they got a cranky old geiser-- they must stay and learn how to deal with cranky old geisers!)

This is a big subject, and one I have given much thought to. I am really enjoying this thread.

[bokendowanderer]

I think just the opposite of attachment. I am far from being as "enlighted" as I would like to be. I don't think its about being detached from people, places, or things. Rather you are aware of them in a different way. Instead of looking for negatives you look for positives. I can find something wrong with everyone if I look for it, but that only leads to dislike, anger, jelousy, and disappointment. I will probably be wrong about some or most of the negative preconseive judgements anyway.

Look at the zen buddhist in the rock garden. He doesn't see racking and arranging the garden as work. He sees it as a way to exercise, get closer to nature, and put things in a peaceful way.

Looking at negatives will only make YOU miserable. The other guy your thinking about, or the tree that is not as tall as you think it should be don't even know you are thinking of them.

It's about letting things be what they are not what we want them to be. Don't let your ego lead you. It will always be there. Just don't let it be what it wants to be.

[bren]

great