When is someone a black belt? (To Instructors) Help Needed.

[liquidkudzu]

When would the instructors here promote someone to black belt? Is it when they are able to handle all of the requirements for that rank, or is it when they hit their personal best? By that, I am referring to someone who has a mental or physical disability.

If someone has been training diligently and hard for over ten years in the same style under the same teacher and still can only remember 2 of the required 20 forms and not do the kicks and punches well, should they be left as a white/yellow (beginner) belt, or be promoted to black?

I am dealing with a similar situation and don't know what to do. A student of mine has been training under me for over ten years and is equal to a 6-8 month student. He has no physical issues and is smarter and more well adjusted than anyone I know, but has some type of learning disorder that blocks him from learning any of the requrements.

I keep thinking about the origin of the black belt: a person keeps training and washing their uniform but not their belt; after years of training, the dirt makes the white belt "black." If this is how it should be applied in truth, this person is a black belt, particularly due to his personal maturity, love of the martial arts, and contributions to society, but where does that leave me in the promotion decision? Do I want a black belt that can't kick well teaching at my school and representing me when others visit the school, or do I do what I consider the right thing and promote him?

Opinions are badly needed here.

lk

[pineapple]

I always give consideration for people who are physically or mentally handicapped. If that student is doing his/her best but is limited strictly by their handicap (not by laziness or lack of effort), I would promote them based upon their martial arts spirit.

My experience with handicapped people is that there is always one area of training that they are good in. I try to make them excel in this area.

[TAZ]

Do you know what that learning disorder might be? We have 4-5 students that have different levels of learning disorders from dislexia (sp?) to autism (sp?) and sometimes we have to alter what they are learning just a little bit so that they can have a sense of accomplishment. It also helps tremendously for an instructor to have even just a little bit of understanding of the disability and how it affects the learning process of the student.

Also, is your student (after 10 years of training) still a white/yellow belt? IMO, I think that promoting someone at this skill level to black simply because of dedication and love of the martial arts, could potentially give a false sense of security to that person if a confrontation would ever arise.

[Gen_Tora]

Whats the handicap? Are you sure it's a handicap/learning thing? Allot of people don't practice out the dojo, so when he's all gung ho in class he may not be at home. If it's a learning disorder based on his ability to remember things try teaching him in a free style format. But, this is my honest opinion, his back kicking form isn't due to a learning disability it's most likely one of several factors.

a) physically disable legs

b) Incorrect practice

c) not practicing outside the dojo

d) nervious/mental preception error

Quick fix, start a free-style (self-defense focused side class) give him an honorary BB & switch him to that. But, if you want to follow the complete regulations for your art form, then no. Ultimately the desision is yours, I wish you the best of luck in whatever you deside.

Peace,

Ron

[IronWarrior]

If he's always training hard in class I would try and get to the root of the problem of why he's not mentally picking up the the 'katas' e.t.c. in order to advance in rank.. whats this persons lifestyle like? is he mentally challenged? e.t.c.. that he cant learn? does he have trouble remembering tecniques in sequence? e.t.c..

[Sensei Rick]

But, this is my honest opinion, his back kicking form isn't due to a learning disability it's most likely one of several factors.

Where is the back kick metioned in the original post?

anyway, on to an answer for you.

I have discussed this in a previos forum, "the value of a black belt"

What makes a black belt. With ten years of training, even once a week, he has proven himself. Let me tell you why. For this student not to quit or be discouraged at this point embodies his indomitable spirit. IMO, it states that his character is developed farther than his physicality. He is still trying!! No black betl and he is still in class, probably as many others pass him in rank in shorter amounts of time. I have seen that senerio discourage many students. Bravo for instilling this kind of spirit in him.

As for his lack of kata knowledge. Is he just not able to perform.... hmmmm, I deal with this often. I give little patches for each new kata learned. I have some who cant do the moveas themselves, but can watch me, and stop me when i make a mistake. (that tellls me they know it, but have problem telling "thier" body what to do.) another way to test is have the student tell me the moves of the kata. Do they know when to turn, what block etc. Try testing him different ways and see if he "knows" more than you think. And i'd be curious about his self defense and body mechanic knowledge. Does he know what is right and wrong about other studen't kicks and forms?

I once knew a disabled quadrapalegic black belt. But he had studied other peoples kicks so much that he made an excellent coach, always identifying pivoting mistakes and other errors in technique. He was a fine black belt.

Let me know what you do, or what other help you might need.

[IronWarrior]

I have come across students before that knew the tecniques and how to perform them but when it came to putting them in a sequence 'katas' they could'nt remember at all... what I would do is go through his katas this way.... talk him through the tecniques, example.. say 'his name' bow, step into front stance,right reverse punch , step up front kick, turn to your right, front kick e.t.c. if he came perform the tecniques as you call them out and place his feet hands e.t.c.. he knows his stuff! or perform the first 3 tecniques, get him to copy you after you complete yours then the next 3, get him to copy you again..good luck

[shogeri]

"Train the body, and the mind will follow."

Just remember what the crux, or the core of what Martial Arts are about.

In old times, Black Belts were handed, based up the Master or Head Instructor, 'knowing' that the student was ready.

I agree that there are many ways in which to handle special needs.

Think of how they live as part of their own individual culture.

That is, focus away from the concepts that might be restrictive to their training; such as handicap, disability or challenged, and turn the training more toward those things that you know they are capable of.

In my system, it's about principles first ~ techniques second.

If they can defend themselves dynamically, and in a flowing manner, and have the proper attitude, and focus, then they would have want it takes to be a black belt.

Those are just a few brief thoughts...

[Gen_Tora]

Rick the back kicking thing was where I started with a lengthly example but later, cut it out & well....

But here is the thing, we're talking about handicaps but what is the kids handicap? From the limited info given, it sounds more like either lack of training on his own or simply having a short term memory. Even after 10 years with a short term memory disorder the subject matter would be picked up.

I am dealing with a similar situation and don't know what to do. A student of mine has been training under me for over ten years and is equal to a 6-8 month student. He has no physical issues and is smarter and more well adjusted than anyone I know, but has some type of learning disorder that blocks him from learning any of the requrements.

Simply put & I hate being the one who sounds all hard _____ed but, I once met a guy who as a child was dieing of cancer & was told he'd never walk. Now at 36 can barely walk with or without his cane & is still struggling with cancer. But, where modern medicine has failed him, he has found empowerment through chinese herbs & qi gong. Also he has 3 black belts & founded his own style of ninjitsu based on his handicap. For him an hour long class was only the beginning of what he'd practice 3 hours a day at home.

None of that was possible without him training & practicing at home. You were talking about the black belt how it origionally came from a white belt being turned black by hardwork. Thing is hard work, requires a massive amount of effort. Meaning the dojo isn't gonna be the only place where he will be praticing. And from what your saying I just don't see an excuse for giving him a black belt. I always tell my students this lessons are what you find in a dojo, practice is what you find outside of it.

I progressed rather quickly through MAs as a child, & allot of parents & kids I was around called it "talent." I sucked at MAs, couldn't remember katas, had bad form, lost my concentration & temper allot. But, I also started going off by myself & practicing on my own. In my garage, the woods behind my house, at my best friends house etc.

Talent, luck, handicap are terms for not trying hard enough. Life isn't fair, so what you cry about not being strong enough or pick up the wieghts. You can say you love something but only love it when your around it. Practice, makes technques, forms, kata etc. work. Simply put, drill the kid on techniques. Drill the kid on katas. Make him practice. But before you do any of that, ask him & yourself this. Does he love karate or the interaction of the dojo.

[angus88]

In old times, Black Belts were handed, based up the Master or Head Instructor, 'knowing' that the student was ready.

Not too "old of times" - at least in karate. Miyagi never gave anybody a black belt and didn't personally wear one himself, although he had one that was a gift from a student. And the people I know that trained in Okinawa in the 50's weren't handed their black belts - they tested. But that's nitpicking the point isn't it?

Actually I'm with Gen_Tora on this one. And this is one of the most difficult things an instructor can deal with - the "student with a heart of gold that just can't grasp karate but tries." One thing I'd be curious to know if - how does this guy spar after 10 years of not being able to punch or kick well?

But the fact is, this whole thing just doesn't sit well with me. I believe you that the guy has spirit, etc., but you can't give a guy a black belt just because of longevity. I mean, really, after 10 years, is he really trying to learn or is he just playing around? I've seen guys that looked like homeless people come in and after about 6 months they either keep up or they are "persuaded" to leave and try something else.

I've modified self-defense moves for people with physical disabilities, but kata is kata, sparring is sparring, what else can you do - pretend someone is capable of defending themselves when they clearly can't? Now you're just ripping off the student and diluting your own system at the same time. If they can't do it, they shouldn't have the rank. It's not fair to the people that don't have the physical disabilities.

Something like this guy should have been nipped in the bud about 9 1/2 years ago. By now I'd say the guy is as good as he's probably ever going to be. And if you want this guy to be presented as a black belt in your school then you have every prerogative. Personally I wouldn't, but I guess I'm kind of hard hearted about it too.

Karate welfare is a bad, bad trend. Sorry for the rant.