A big question

[UseoForce]

I thought about this lately.

Say your walking down a deserted, dark, street when someone approaches and demands your wallet. You sense that if you don't comply, violence is inevitable.

Most self-defense texts I've read either:

A. Say that you should give him your wallet, your life isn't worth the money. Violence should only be a last resort and you should do nothing to provoke it.

B. Don't give up your wallet and fight to death. The guy is a criminal, irrational, and should not be trusted to be satisfied with your wallet. He may want your life.

C. Run!

I think there is something else that needs to be considered. As a trained martial artist, I believe I have a responsibilty to not only fight back but, if I can, take this creep into custody (citizen's arrest). Why?

How would you feel if you did give him your wallet, and, encouraged by his success, continues robbing and assaulting law abiding people? You had the opputunity to end his criminal ways, but you didn't, and now other people suffer, and possibly die because of it.

I am a strong believer in the "With Great Power comes Great Responsibilty" philosophy. As a martial artist with the power, I think we have a responsibilty to resist violent crime.

A few more points:

1. I'm don't consider myself a traditionalist, but I do consider myself a warrior, and part of that is protecting those weaker than yourself.

2. I understand I risk getting hurt, but I have two points to add to that.

A. If have have to die, I can't think of a better way to go than upholding the values I lived by.

B. How could you live with yourself knowing someone else got hurt or killed because YOU didn;t act when you had the chance?

I'm interested to hear what you have to say about this.

[elbows_and_knees]

The problem there is that this is reality. He has a gun. He may not have it touching you, as many gun disarms require, nor may he even be within range for you to sidestep and grasp his arm. In such a situation, how will you fight back? If I only have two dollars in my wallet, is that worth the possiblity of one of us dying in a struggle?

Now, I'm all for shutting down wrong doers - I've stopped guys from beating women, stopped a man from mugging a paper boy, etc. but you have to know WHEN to react in a certain way. Not only that, but IMO, you really have no 'duty' as a martial artist. that is nostalgic, as if we were living in feudal japan. Bushido is not our way. I stopped the crimes that I stopped because that's just my personality. I stop similar things at the club I bounce at all the time... That's just who I am. I'd be that way even without MA training.

We can look at it another way as well, going back to judgement. Let's say you try to fight the guy who robs you at gunpoint, and you get shot and paralyzed. Now, how can you defend the woman getting beaten by a man? How can you stop a mugging? you can't even help yourself anymore...

Sure, with great power comes great responsibility, but above all, you have to think.

[Chris05]

basically it depends on the sitution. it's not worth u dying for or your adversary. like elbows_and_knees if you have two dollars in your wallet it's not worth dying.

[UseoForce]

Obviously THINKING should come first and foremost. If you know your odds are slim, live to fight another day.

No, I don't follow the Bushido code, but IMO, if you have the ability to make a positive impact on the world, do it.

I'm not saying you should do something stupid. Know your limits, and know most gun and knife disarms are nearly useless.

Perhaps I presented my scenario poorly. Like elbows said, I believe in "shutting down wrong doers." I'm not talking heroics or anything.

I say this in opposition to those you say violence is only for one's own bodily protection. Many martial artists say "let the guy have your stuff, let him beat up some woman...its not your problem...don't get involved"

IMO, thats Wrong.

[markusan]

Are you suggesting that losing your life to a low life to prove a point is a good thing?

[UseoForce]

No, I'm saying if you weigh the odds, decide you can defeat the aggressor but don't, at least you have the comfort of knowing you did the right thing. By doing nothing, you would indeed have been guilty of the aforementioned.

I'm NOT saying you should throw your life away needlessly.

[tufrthanu]

Actually I think as citizens regardless of your MA status you have an obligation legally to act. Whether that is calling the police or helping a woman fight off a rapist. I'm pretty sure if the cops talk to you and it turns out you stood by while something went down you would be an accessory. Obviously you have to be smart about it. If its one thug with a gun...bean him or stab him. If its a group call the cops...or get your gun.

[Jake90]

I have to agree with Useoforce. I strongly believe that as a martial artist i owe it to my community to prevent crime as much as i possibly can. That being said i feel the same sense of obligation from simply being a citizen of my country.

I suppose that this sense of duty comes simply from the fact that as a MA i am considerably better qualified to deal with the threat then my mother for example. By not attempting to deal with the menace to society (however small my chances of success) i am, in my mind at least, indirectly putting my family and friends at a much greater risk then i myself am at.

On the other hand, this is probably because i live in a wealthy area and am very unlikely to come into contact with firearms or knives. It also relies upon an old fashioned and probably niave hope that others would do the same for the same reasons.

[Mr. Mike]

when I read the questions, I was expecting something different. My take is this: If you may die regardless of what you do, use force. If a gun is pulled, usually the perp is a coward and only wants you to be scared enough to give him what he wants...DO IT. If you try for a disarm, you may fail and get killed. Same with a knife. If you think you are going to be killed by a raving psychotic, then better to try not to die by fighting back. If the perp just wants an easy payday, give him one.

I thought the thread was going to be about seeing a crime against another, or stopping harassment or the like. If you see that happening, then of course, you must act. If not, think about your inaction as you lie dying in your bed X number of years from now.

[Belasko]

I feel personally that I should resist certain crimes w/ force as I am able to. However, I don't feel that being a martial artist means that I have a "responsibility" to intervene. It only makes me better equipped to deal with the situation than another person.