Daniel-san/Chozen fight

[Meguro]

True, the short time in which Daniel was able to progress isn't really consistent with that when you think about it, but the movie presents it in a way that shows he basically ate, drank and breathed karate for the period in which he trained.

Certainly the message is that hard work and balance are the preferred route, and that shortcuts are not the answer. This was even stated several times when Daniel wanted to learn "more" stuff faster.

So, eating, drinking and breathing karate for a short period of time is balanced and tsuru ashi dachi-mae geri, magical healing are not short cuts? I found the movies cliche and stereotype ridden. That's just me. If people derive something affirmative from them that's a good thing.

[Menjo]

True, the short time in which Daniel was able to progress isn't really consistent with that when you think about it, but the movie presents it in a way that shows he basically ate, drank and breathed karate for the period in which he trained.

Certainly the message is that hard work and balance are the preferred route, and that shortcuts are not the answer. This was even stated several times when Daniel wanted to learn "more" stuff faster.

So, eating, drinking and breathing karate for a short period of time is balanced and tsuru ashi dachi-mae geri, magical healing are not short cuts? I found the movies cliche and stereotype ridden. That's just me. If people derive something affirmative from them that's a good thing.

I can see where you're coming from. I would say that the karate kid movie and its story where pretty original at the time, it bugs me that hundreds of other movies take away from the few good ones.

[PrideampPoise]

So, eating, drinking and breathing karate for a short period of time is balanced and tsuru ashi dachi-mae geri, magical healing are not short cuts?

No, intense training is not a shortcut. And again, even in the move, Daniel was encouraged to seek balance. The healing stuff doesn't really work into the message either way. Its mainly a character device for Mr. Miyagi, and a plot device to get Daniel back in the ring after the injury.

I found the movies cliche and stereotype ridden.

That's fair enough, though as Menjo points out, the original holds up pretty well against other movies of the time. Clearly the story did get to audiences in a way that is rare for movies that deal with martial arts. But you're right, everybody views it differently.

I will say that 2nd and 3rd movies did fall victim to the cliches and stereotypes you mentioned, and in a progressively worse manner. The second was still good, imho, and had some different aspects than the first. The third was simply horrible, again, imho.

I thought the fourth was actually a significant improvement over the third, but still nothing to really brag about.

[Meguro]

I found the movies cliche and stereotype ridden.

That's fair enough, though as Menjo points out, the original holds up pretty well against other movies of the time. Clearly the story did get to audiences in a way that is rare for movies that deal with martial arts. But you're right, everybody views it differently.

I will say that 2nd and 3rd movies did fall victim to the cliches and stereotypes you mentioned, and in a progressively worse manner. The second was still good, imho, and had some different aspects than the first. The third was simply horrible, again, imho.

I thought the fourth was actually a significant improvement over the third, but still nothing to really brag about.

I would like to compare Karate Kid to Clint Eastwood's Million Dollar Baby as they have similar themes: unlikely hero overcomes tremendous odd and triumphs through determination, hard work and good coaching. The Miyagi character, is the ultimate short-cut in that it depends on racial stereotypes instead of good writing for character development.

[PrideampPoise]

The Miyagi character, is the ultimate short-cut in that it depends on racial stereotypes instead of good writing for character development.

I'm not going to contend the screenplay should have been nominated for an Oscar, that's for sure. But still, to me, that's a harsh assessment of the character. Miyagi is a war-hero who has been through terrible tragedies in his life, and he develops a bond with, and learns to trust, Daniel. This is not accomplished through stereo-typing. In fact, other than the fact that he's Japanese and knows Karate, I'm not sure what the racial stereotypes are.

He has an accent and cultivates a Japanese garden, but surely we have not grown so PC as to say that's not realistic? If it is, I have some acquaintances that are going to be upset to find they are nothing but a racial stereotype.

Actually, he avoids most of the racial stereotypes that were common at the time. Asian characters in American movies were frequently shown to be nothing more than comic relief, their accents or appearance providing something for others to make fun of. If they knew martial arts, they were quick to use it, and with lots of high-pitched screeches while they were doing it.

The only time the movie actually uses race for humor was the beach scene, when the two yokels confront Mr. Miyagi and Daniel. But even then, the scene shows the stupidity of such actions, not the humor in them.

[Meguro]

Pat Morita was a Japanese-American who spoke fluent English, not that one would ever know by watching his portrayal of Arnold (of Happy Days)and later Miyagi. For the record, I've studied with many Japanese and Korean teachers who spoke perfect English. On top of that they weren't cute & fuzzy. They were calloused hard guys, from a fighter's perspective and excellent teachers too. I also studied Judo with an American and German sensei. Both were talented Judoka, but my German sensei's pronunciation of English would makes Arnold Schwarzneggar blush.

It seems that Asians are cast for comic relief. Maybe it's because the only type of work for people with Asian features are roles for cute fuzzy, emasculated men with bad pronunciation. Of course there's also work out there for evil ninja.

[PrideampPoise]

But Miyagi's accent was not used for comic relief. Just having an accent does not make one a racial stereotype.

Of course there are Asian people in this country without accents. But of course there are also Asian people in this country with accents. Portraying either in a movie is not right or wrong in and of itself. Neither makes one a stereotype.

Yes, the Arnold character from Happy Days is a different story, but Morita was not cast as comic relief for The Karate Kid.

You've got some good points about Hollywood stereotypes in movies, its just that The KK is actually an example of signficant progress being made in that area. Especially when we consider that it was made about 20 years ago.

[Meguro]

I can imagine the director's conversation with Pat Morita during the first rehearsal," That was a great for a first run Pat. Now could you sound a little more Japanesey for the next take? Do that thing you did on Happy Days, it was perfect." Of course I wasn't there and it could very well have gone another way.

[PrideampPoise]

If his KK performance was anything like his Happy Days performance, I could agree with you.

Again, some people have accents, some don't. In movies, some actors are asked to fake accents because its part of the character. Pat Morita was asked to do this in various roles, and sometimes, purely for comic relief, which is unfortunate. Mr. Miyagi, however, was not one of those unfortunate situations.

[Zorba]

it happens all the time

hugh laurie is english, but puts on an american accent for the show house.